Annual Christmas grumble

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Yellow Fang

Legendary Member
Location
Reading
It's not even past Remembrance Sunday and already it's all Christmas in the shops. I was in Caffe Nero and they had 'Christmas' written all over the windows in large glittery writing. They were selling Christmas wraps instead of falafal wraps. In TK-MAXX, they had 'It's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you, ding-dong-dingaling-ling' playing out on the tannoy. I pity the staff, they have another six weeks of it. I find it slightly annoying when people wear poppies before November, but surely we should wait for the previous special day in the calendar to be over before ramping up Christmas. It's bad enough Christmas can't be restricted to December.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Christmas is the back of a lorry, from Sherburn-in-Elmet, at the end of August. Well it was one year, that was particularly bad. Other times we got Christmas stuff in September and October.
 
U

User482

Guest
It's not even past Remembrance Sunday and already it's all Christmas in the shops. I was in Caffe Nero and they had 'Christmas' written all over the windows in large glittery writing. They were selling Christmas wraps instead of falafal wraps. In TK-MAXX, they had 'It's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you, ding-dong-dingaling-ling' playing out on the tannoy. I pity the staff, they have another six weeks of it. I find it slightly annoying when people wear poppies before November, but surely we should wait for the previous special day in the calendar to be over before ramping up Christmas. It's bad enough Christmas can't be restricted to December.
Don't go to Tk Maxx or Caffe Nero. This strategy also has other advantages.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
....which is?

It depends how far back you want to go, but the religious reason is not the original (ymmv) and only really relevant to some.
Having a party in the middle of the Nothern Hemisphere winter makes us all feel better, and associating it with one of the two main feasts of the dominant local religion is as good an excuse as any. December 25th has been associated with the birth of Jesus for at least 1700 years, and for "some" read "most" - 60% of the UK population asserted a Christian identity in the last census.
 
Having a party in the middle of the Nothern Hemisphere winter makes us all feel better, and associating it with one of the two main feasts of the dominant local religion is as good an excuse as any. December 25th has been associated with the birth of Jesus for at least 1700 years, and for "some" read "most" - 60% of the UK population asserted a Christian identity in the last census.
....or a religion superimposing their beliefs on an existing solstice festival is a good way to try and convert the local population and with less than 1 in 20 going to church, I'd say we're not much of a Christian country. The original meaning of Christmas? Ask how it was celebrated in the many hundreds of years prior to the Church pretending it is actually the birth of Jesus and ideas of a party, eating, drinking and exchanging gifts becomes more authentic
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
....which is?

It depends how far back you want to go, but the religious reason is not the original (ymmv) and only really relevant to some.
...and, of course, the religious reason is why we celebrate Christmas (the clue's in the name). It might not be the reason we have a party in mid-winter. There's a decent article looking reasonably dispassionately at the historical evidence and squishing this suggestion:

....or a religion superimposing their beliefs on an existing solstice festival is a good way to try and convert the local population and with less than 1 in 20 going to church, I'd say we're not much of a Christian country. The original meaning of Christmas? Ask how it was celebrated in the many hundreds of years prior to the Church pretending it is actually the birth of Jesus and ideas of a party, eating, drinking and exchanging gifts becomes more authentic

here: https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...w-testament/how-december-25-became-christmas/

TL;DR? The feast of the nativity on December 25th is well attested at a time when Christianity wouldn't have wanted to associate itself with an existing solstice festival, whose date is apparently less well attested. An alternative explanation to do with celebrating the birth 9 months after the conception exists and is more credible given what we know about the mind of late antiquity.

And you've cherry-picked the least favourable statistic - 60% assert a Christian identity, and as anyone associated with Christianity will tell you going to church is not the marker of a Christian identity these days (if it ever was). Oh, and "many hundred" is 300 at most - Christmas (as I said, the clue's in the name) is a Christian festival whose date was settled by the early 4th century CE. Midwinter parties no doubt go back a lot further, and many of the traditions now associated with Christmas have no doubt been borrowed, but Christmas (the clue's in the name) is inescapably Christian.
 

Jody

Stubborn git
Come on @Yellow Fang Its only 6 weeks away. Appreciate getting annoyed when it starts in August or early september but not the middle of November. In two weeks most people will be doing their Christmas shopping with their last pay day before the event.
 

Slick

Guru
....or a religion superimposing their beliefs on an existing solstice festival is a good way to try and convert the local population and with less than 1 in 20 going to church, I'd say we're not much of a Christian country. The original meaning of Christmas? Ask how it was celebrated in the many hundreds of years prior to the Church pretending it is actually the birth of Jesus and ideas of a party, eating, drinking and exchanging gifts becomes more authentic
I rarely go to church for my own reasons, I still consider myself Christian, I just don't feel the need to put on a show about it.
 
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