another take on Orbea...

WILL911

New Member
Ulster based fettler building Bafang stuff usually and running them as well, cycle bud on his 2nd Gain now on Carbon 20? model, better decor wise than the ugly blackish grey of their starter models, when he bought the first one he acquired with my help a new pair of Orbea Gain wheels ,strange in the rims were rim brake and hubs disc brake compatible, but he tried them in both models and they were new and perfect and ran as they should... long story short I bought a new Whtye alloy gravelish frameset with a view to mid motoring it ,... but the bracket was barrelled, swollen for cable access, this being the hated hidden cable 2020 model hated by anyone who has had to work at, .fit or listen to them rattling, so the TDZ or any Bafang would not insert at all, so i asked my chum about the Gain E wheelset. take them and try it out. see what they do and we did, we got the motor tried out using a Bafang wheel controller on an old display making 18 on the stand and 18.5 up the road.. so the build began..its now almost complete and i am learning more about Orbea and this sweet hub which is built in China like most of the rest..today after another test on throttle control by the seasoned Gain pilot 22.5 perhaps wind assisted no pas kit on yet , waiting on the hollowtec specific kit, running Ultegra 8000, I have some questions especially for those USA members running Gains, what does it say in the script on the rear hub.???. UK models say model # and numbers and also 25kph. i know that USA limits are 20mph, but my electronics man and my experience with engineering and having dialled the hub in testing down to perhaps 2 mph or less and it still turning smoothly like a swiss watch & a mouse chewing paper lends us to think that this hub has potential for more torque given a decent programmable controller now that its away from Orbea's all controlling electronics... will
 
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WILL911

New Member
Pas kit fitted today, working on all 3 levels, rode it for half a mile and couldn't get on the 52 so turned and hit the throttle into the wind maxed at 18 which was ok for the wind in my face.. more testing to do and sorted the cable to the front derailleur ....internal cabling GRRRR.. will
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Welcome, my friend.

If you want to build an illegal spec ebike, great, go nuts - that's your business. As a technical matter its genuinely of interest. Pictures and the like most welcome.

But please don't detail your efforts in public. Us legal ebikers are under enough pressure from the Daily Mail massev, and more and more such talk is just grist to the mill for those who want further regulation and documentation. Being an Ulsterman you'll know what a ballache that can be.

The internet is easy pickings for parliamentary researchers, and such public detailing the blatant and boastful construction and use of non compliant machinery will get noticed over time. Please, do what you want with the screwdrivers, but when discussing it publically at least have the decency to pretend it's a fully legal pedelec you've created.
 
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WILL911

New Member
Take your point, however, point me to someone who could and would be able to actually tell the difference and prepared legally to put their rep on it ... we don't ride in urban environs and where i am the 'boys' have lots more to do than worry about 2 old guys on bikes, plus they aren't so plentiful post Patton, we're out on small B class roads, legal , if need be i can dial it even more so..W
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
If its switchable and you can dial in more power, then its not legal. Even if you set it to 15.5 cut out, that fact that it can be turned up, or readily switched to anither mode, renders it illegal.

I can tell the difference, and Im not alone. It doesn't take a genius to figure out when a motor isn't cutting out at 15.5.

Clearly you can tell the difference or you wouldn't bother doing it.

But you've ignored the most salient point of my ramblings - you risk ruining it for everyone if you're not discreet about it. Do what you want, but don't put it on record on a public forum where it can one day be used as a stick to beat us legal riders with. Loose lips, sinks ships.

PS, I was one of "the boys" for near on 30 years, so I think I have a better idea than you as you what they may or may not take an interest in. In addition, I'm good friends with our counties head of roads policing, an ex colleague, and their traffic officers (of which I was one once) are trained to readily identify modfied ebikes, are issued with photographic aids to be able to identify dongles, non compliant motors, etc. Even in our rural county riders do get fingered periodically, and its not a nice day out in court for them. It's far from a policing priority for the local dibble, but it's not something they will ignore either if they do encounter it.

And every one that does get caught adds fuel to to the clamour for us to be regulated, licenced, insured, and all the rest of it. Thats already happened once in N.I. and I'd have thought youd be quite keen for it not to make a retrun.
 
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WILL911

New Member
I would like to see you definitively tell me how you would tell whether i'm riding at max 25kph or 3mph more at 18.. when the wind is maybe 10 mph on our backs as you drive past in your well signed up vehicle..dongles that are being used are well hidden takes a good hour to get anywhere near a photo opportunity you have the motor out first,...I rail against you for the simple fact that you are well out of your depth, talking the talk and not really able to walk the walk, as for you claiming 30 years in the force , good luck with that.. and have your facts on Ulster correct.. no one here has ever been prosecuted for E bike offences, there were a few officers who lifted a disabled drunk who they knew well rode an E bike he was lifted so he didn't hurt himself , the officer who facebooked and spun the story and it got some bad press for the boys in a few papers, isn't going any further career wise.... the CC, was livid, sent an AC down to us to find out the truth, and I have a get out of jail free letter, anyhow the law has been changed, now aligned with the UK or is it Brexit proof ?? maybe we're EU rules now..lol.... this is the last on this matter from me.. period...i didn't come on here to be lectured by anyone..W
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
The converse could be argued. Electric scooters were/are illegal, however many were being used in towns/cities. Now they are being trialled in many places-this is just formal step before legalization imo.

The advent of more walking, cycling, zero emission transport I expect changes in law for more ebikes, scooters etc
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/electric-scooters-legal-uk-tsc-mps-b742234.html
And the whisper from Whitehall is that the participants of the trial have not showered themselves in glory (for ecample, on the first day of the trial in Northampton one rider was done for drunk driving, no licence and hence no insurance) and it is not looking terrbily likely to be recommenced to be made legal.

Our history is littered with examples where a few couln't behave so everyone gets stiffed with more legislation - it's the British way.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
I would like to see you definitively tell me how you would tell whether i'm riding at max 25kph or 3mph more at 18.. when the wind is maybe 10 mph on our backs as you drive past in your well signed up vehicle..dongles that are being used are well hidden takes a good hour to get anywhere near a photo opportunity you have the motor out first,...
It's really not diffuclt.

A suspected offence.

Vehicle seized section 19 of PACE to prevent potential evidence of the offence being lost or concealed.

That may not even be necessary with some of the really lairy bikes - going uphill at 25mph without pedalling is self evident.

Qualified vehicle examiner scrutinises it closely - typically about 1 in 4 aor 5 roads policing officers are qualified vehicle examiners, and if it gets that far they will find hidden dongles and circuit boards People hide a lot worse a lot more thoroughly in vehicles and it gets found, and you can't think of anyrhing they haven't seen before.

Hell, they could just get on it and ride and have a colleague ping them with a speed gun with a current calibration certificate. If a qualifed VE can get to the scene quickly, or the bobby that stops you is a VE themselves they may scritinise it then and there rather than taking it back to the pound.

There's no "claim" about it. Ive been retired 4 years now but were I back in the job and if I suspected illegal ebike usage I would have little difficulty proving it. I'm as thick as pig sheet, and if could do it then someone with working eyesight and a brain cell would breeze it. Just like you, they put their trousers on one leg at a time and if you can think it then they can find it - how do you think those few that do end up in court manage to get there?

It isn't a priority for them by any stretch of the imagination, it'd have to be a fairly slow day or you'd need to catch their attention somehow. Nevertheless, if they do suspect it they absolutely will not turn a blind eye and absolutely will not have any problem finding hidden dongles and the like. Small numbers do end up in Court over it, and I'm sure each of them thought they were as clever as you do. Don't kid yourself.

From the kit you claim to habe you could make a really nice legal machine and i can't understand why you don't do so. Is 3MPH really that important to you?
 
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