Any Raleigh Dawn Tourist owners on here??

[SkipdiverJohn]

I've recently picked up an interesting, but as yet unidentified, Raleigh rod-braked 3-speed roadster.
I'd hoped to have some pics up in the "show us your Raleigh" thread by now, but unfortunately an essential front tyre change has revealed the fork is a bit misaligned and needs some remedial "persuasion" whilst solidly clamped in a big bench vice, as the wheel is not sitting square & central between the blades when correctly fitted in the dropouts. The wheel had been misfitted on the piss many years ago by the look of it to allow the rod brakes to work. This is not the usual fork bent back, bike ridden at speed straight into a solid object that wasn't big enough to see, sort of problem. This is more subtle, and wasn't visually obvious.
It's not a major problem, and the bike was super cheap, so I'm not going to cry about it. Anyway I digress....

This Roadster is a little curious, and I'll describe it as best I can without pics in the hope someone has got one the same and can positively identify the model:-
Fully brazed frame (not bolted-in seatstays), size 23", bronze green paint just like an old Land Rover, moderately slack geometry - not super-slack. Steering lock on nearside of fork and receiver bracket brazed to lower head tube. Yellow sticker declaring frame made of high tensile steel tubing on seat tube.
Wheels are 26" special Raleigh section steel rims, which take ISO 590, 26" x 1 3/8" tyres - NOT the 28" x 1 1/2" ISO 635 size normally found on rod-brake roadsters.
Transmission is a '73-dated Sturmey 3-speed, AG hub, which I believe is an AW internally but with dynohub generator. Chainset is Raleigh cottered, with the Heron, 46T on the front and 19T on the back. Normal SA trigger shifter. Fully enclosed all-steel chaincase (the chain and sprockets are still like new inside!).
Accessories are full enamelled pressed steel roadster mudguards, Raleigh decal on rear mudguard. Sturmey dynohub lighting with a DBU battery storage canister bolted to the seat tube. Pump pegs on down tube, Brooks sprung roadster saddle, North Road style bars with rod brake fitments. No rear rack fitted. Alloy propstand, which might be dealer-fit.
I weighed the bike before I started working on it and it weighs around 41lbs with the lights and DBU fitted. Without these it's around 39 1/2 lbs, which is quite a bit less that the usual quoted 45-50 lbs for rod brake roadsters. My best guess is that I have got a Dawn Tourist, but I'm not 100% sure about this. Does my description ring a bell with any other Raleigh roadster owners?

 

[midlife]

We used to sell bikes like that back in the 70's, I don't recall them having a name, just Raleigh Roadster. I pdi'd a few so someone must have bought them lol.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Mine has no model decals, just a solitary Raleigh logo on each side of the downtube. There were definitely different models made though, because I can distinctly remember seeing a new 28" wheel version with ultra-slack geometry on display in a Raleigh dealers, alongside 26" versions in the early 1980's! I found a picture of one that's a dead ringer for mine, apart from the DBU and carrier, on the Bike Shed website. it describes such bikes as "vintage hybridised roadsters"; i.e. having rod brakes and chaincases, but only 26" wheels not 28"

I'm seriously impressed by the quality of the engineering on mine, from the fittings and brackets to little touches like outward chamfered wheel nuts, so they don't get burrs on them if knocked into things. Everything looks built to last a lifetime.

 

[midlife]

Memory banks dredged and the model we sold was the Superbe lol

 

[biggs682]

Looks in very good condition for sure

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Looks in very good condition for sure

No, that's not my actual one, just a near-identical style bike, which the site I found it on claims to be a Dawn Tourist. Mine is half-decent cosmetically; a few scuffs I marks but not immaculate. The difficulty I see with identifying these bikes is they were produced for decades in virtually identical form, and there's surprisingly little information about the later ones that were really museum pieces by the 1970's and 1980's. There was clearly a hard core of customers who still wanted full chaincase roadsters though- and still is to a degree as they are still being made now, sadly just not by Raleigh in Nottingham.
I regard the current term "Dutch bikes" as incorrect, as the Dutch copied them from us in the first place!

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

The one pictured looks pretty much identical to the gents out of the pair my Aunt has. 26" wheels (what's left of them), chaincase and all.

Working on the ladies one I was also impressed by the quality of the engineering and the materials. Having been stored in a leaky stable for many years the whole thing was horrendously rusty yet all but one of the fittings I worked on came apart as easily as if it was only a few months old.

If yours has had a replacement front wheel it is possible that's what has caused the fitment problems as Raleigh used a smaller over-locknut dimension (88mm springs to mind rather than the more common 100mm) so the fork needs a tweak to make an alternative hub fit.

 

[midlife]

SkipdiverJohn is right, even by the 70's these bikes were a bit of an anachronism. They were much pricier than a Wayfarer or Esquire but we must have sold some. Raleigh must have kept a production line running from the 50's to keep churning them out. All the spares were still available in the 80's, rod brake stuff, fork locks and keys, Raleigh TPI races....... They were not marketed like the Grifter etc so not many catalogues about. Maybe the vcc library has some?

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

If yours has had a replacement front wheel it is possible that's what has caused the fitment problems as Raleigh used a smaller over-locknut dimension (88mm springs to mind rather than the more common 100mm) so the fork needs a tweak to make an alternative hub fit.

No, the wheel is definitely the original and matches the rear one exactly. In fact, I don't think a single thing has been changed or replaced on the bike since it left Nottingham. It's in 100% time-warp condition , possibly even down to the perished tyres (now replaced by Marathons).
There's definitely some misalignment of the fork caused by some sort of incident. When the fork crown is straight ahead, the front wheel points a few degrees off to one side and the tyre wall touches the inside of one of the blades, so there's a little bit of a twist, plus the fork blades have been pushed to one side - off centre to the axis of the main frame. I suspect the owner had an "off" - possibly caused by trapping the front wheel in a gulley or drain cover slot, rather than a head-on crash. Maybe they even gave up cycling after that, which would explain the like-new mechanical condition of the transmission?
I need to mount the fork in a vice mounted to a heavy bench and work out which bits are out and in which direction. Given it's only cooking-grade hi-tensile not anything exotic that might work-harden, I anticipate a bit of "technical adjustment" with a piece of scaffold tube and some trial fits of the wheel will soon restore it to a useable state. It's too nice a machine to just strip for parts, and a 3-speed has, up until now, been missing from my old steel Raleigh fleet. I shall persevere with it until it's sorted.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

From that description I agree that an off sounds likely. Best of luck straightening it. It should be a nice machine for pootling about on when it's done.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

It was fairly local and I took a punt at my sort of price; i.e. cheap enough to risk getting a lemon, which this still isn't even with the fork issue. I like pootle bikes, and the Raleigh is in a quality league above my old Puch - which is a really nice ride all the same, they just suffer with terrible chromework because they cut corners to save on cost. Raleigh chrome tends to be much more durable. Plus it's a British-built bike too.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Well, after a rather frustrating afternoon's worth of tinkering, not helped by a rod brake clamp going AWOL, the trusty Raleigh All-Steel Bicycle I acquired last month is now back on the road, having got the bent & twisted fork straight enough to make it rideable without the tyre rubbing on the fork blade !
It's now had a full bearing regrease, the Sturmey hub has had some oil injected into it and the gear cable, chain has been lubed, the ratty old original Raleigh tyres have been replaced with new original Marathons in 26" x 1 3/8" size, and the original ludicrously short seat post has been swapped for a slightly longer one taken off a skip bike. I've reversed the orientation of the clamp on the Brooks sprung mattress saddle, to push the saddle back a couple of inches and give me some more knee clearance at the handlebars. The bars are pretty much as high as I can safely get them, and they are just about high enough for comfort although I'd have preferred another half an inch.

Went out for a few miles of pootle speed road test - these bikes will not be rushed....

Not one for the Weight Weenies...… these are made of the real stuff. Steel, not plastic.

Generally pretty pleased with the way it rides, apart from a bit of irritating contact with some part of the chaincase which gives a scraping noise once every revolution. Need to sort that out, plus the clamp for the rear brake rod. Sods Law says I'll end up making one from a bolt, then the original one will reappear. One thing that did surprise me though was that toe overlap can be an issue when wearing workmen's boots! The top tube is just under 22" C-C and the wheelbase is also fairly short for a roadster, and more than once on corners I found my steel toecaps were touching the front mudguard. My other mudguard equipped bikes don't do this....

 

[FrankCrank]

I've heard that the 'All steel bike' phrase meant that they no longer used cast iron

I have 2 Raleigh Twenties in my collection, and when you try lifting one up it's a real shock how heavy they are for such a small bike.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I've heard that the 'All steel bike' phrase meant that they no longer used cast iron

I have 2 Raleigh Twenties in my collection, and when you try lifting one up it's a real shock how heavy they are for such a small bike.

Correct, in the early days, not all bikes had fully adopted steel and malleable iron was used for some parts - resulting in a heavy bike compared to a lightweight hi-tensile Raleigh!
The Twenty frame isn't structurally a very efficient use of material, just like all the other single tube shoppers, so to stop them being too wobbly they are beefier than they would be otherwise. I've had a ride on an Elswick 3-speed shopper bike and weight was on a par with a Raleigh or Dawes Kingpin. Not much in it, TBH.
My roadster isn't actually that heavy for a rod-brake, full chaincase design. It weighed 41 lbs when acquired, with the Sturmey dynohub battery lighting. I took that off, and it dropped to 39 1/2 lbs, now it's just over 40 lbs with the new Schwalbe Marathons on. You don't notice the weight much on the level, but you sure do on any sort of gradient.
Mine is geared 46T front and 19T rear, which gives a comfortable middle gear. Normally a hub gear Raleigh will have an 18T sprocket. Not sure if mine has been modified by the original owner, or they put a 19T on at the factory to compensate for the rod braked models being heavier.