Anyone cleared a debt...

[Arch]

I think TV and magazines are partially to blame ... for example when Eastenders first started, can you remember the grimey sets.... now no-one lives like that in Eastenders (I think cos I don't actually watch the program now).

Although, none of them have washing machines, still, on account of needing the Launderette as a focal point...

I'm not sure Eastenders can be billed as a cause of consumerism, but I agree some TV is. And that a lot of people can't seem to contemplate living without stuff that I consider completely frivolous. Giant TV's in every room. I have a TV in both living and bedroom, but that's because it's the same room. And the TV is a B/W portable. And you know what? I still laugh as much at the comedy, and get as much info from the news, and enjoy the drama as much as anyone...

 

[beanzontoast]

Although, none of them have washing machines, still, on account of needing the Launderette as a focal point...

I'm not sure Eastenders can be billed as a cause of consumerism, but I agree some TV is. And that a lot of people can't seem to contemplate living without stuff that I consider completely frivolous. Giant TV's in every room. I have a TV in both living and bedroom, but that's because it's the same room. And the TV is a B/W portable. And you know what? I still laugh as much at the comedy, and get as much info from the news, and enjoy the drama as much as anyone...

Haven't got an lcd tv in the house yet, despite the advertisers insisting how wonderful they are. It also makes me laugh the way they try to advertise High Definition tv's by showing tv adverts to make you admire the wonderful colours and detail - yet people are watching these adverts on normal tv's! If it looks that good on my normal tv, why bother with High Def!

Also put off by the manufacturers' 'how many dead pixels you can have before we accept it as faulty' rules. Not looking forward to the day when our old tv goes pop and all we have to choose from are lcd tv's.

We had a little b&w for years when we first got married. There are some films in particular that I still think look best in b&w - way more atmospheric. Then we had a colour portable for about 12 years while the kids were small. Only bought a widescreen 'tube' tv when that conked out, mostly to watch films. We can't afford to go out much at the moment, so watching a film on tv with a bottle of plonk and at weekends is a big treat for Mrs Beanz and I!

 

[Crackle]

.....We can't afford to go out much at the moment, so watching a film on tv with a bottle of plonk and at weekends is a big treat for Mrs Beanz and I!

You could try some spaghettiontoast for a change you know

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I helped run a Credit Union* is very deprived area for about 5 years. You would think that Credit Unions would be ideal in such a place, however one thing that everyone appears to be ignoring here is the social network. Basically, people do not want to be seen to be poor. Many people's self-respect is strongly based on how they are seen by friends and neighbours. The Credit Union was associated with 'being poor', and as a result, most people who should have been members would rather secretly take out loans from loan sharks at ridiculous rates of interest than be seen to be involved with the Credit Union. I think a lot of people here massively underestimate the role of peer-pressure and 'face' in poor communities.

*If anyone doesn't know how they work, they are mutual savings and loans organisation, in which membershave to save up money every week, which allows you to take out loans. They don't pay interest, but you can get dividents (like building societies) - and they are very tightly regulated by the FSA.

 

[swee'pea99]

Indeed. Want to id the poorest kids in the scrappiest schools in the poorest areas? Look for brand new Nikes.

 

[Arch]

I think a lot of people here massively underestimate the role of peer-pressure and 'face' in poor communities.

A good point. I'm well aware that my lack of consumer desire makes me a bit of an odd one out - but I just wasn't brought up that way, which makes my parents odd ones out too, I guess.

 

[JamesAC]

What an excellent thread!

I've just finished reading "The Waste Makers" by Vance Packard -- a book published in the USA in the late '50s/early '60s. This book details the extraordinary lengths manufacturers and advertisers go to to get consumers to consume - particularly things they don't need to consume. The book gives examples of things like this year's model of motor car being the same as last year's (and the year's before) being basically the same, but with the headlamps in a different position, or bigger (or smaller) fins and so on. Since the late '50s we have been deluged with commercial pressures to indulge in goods and products that we don't need or want.

I find it quite distasteful that the UK government is hell-bent on "reflating" the economy by injecting money to enable people who haven't got any at the moment to spend on things that they don't need or want. The whole rigmarole will just start off again. We've got a credit crunch because people (and businesses, banks and event nation states) have been spending far in excess of what they've got. Why repeat it all again, and bring untold misery on people as they lose their jobs and homes, with consequent pressure on relationships?

 

[Mr Pig]

I think a lot of people here massively underestimate the role of peer-pressure and 'face' in poor communities.

Maybe the secret would be to combine the Credit Union with some other organisation so that people could go to it without others knowing why they were there?

"Want to id the poorest kids? Look for brand new Nikes."

Ha ha, exactly! :0) And that's what's wrong. It's not about the money, it's about expectations and pride. I think it's pretty horrible when you live in a society where kids will bully another kid just because his training shoes aren't the aproved brand. That's pretty screwed up.

 

[Arch]

I'm always amazed (well, I would be, if I wasn't so hardbitten and cynical) at the constant 'improvement' of stuff. Stuff that worked perfectly well before. I notice it most in consumables like cosmetics and skin/haircare stuff (perhaps because I don't use them, so I'm never sucked in). Suddenly, a face cream is no good unless it's got micro-lyco-proteins in it. Which probably means it's got dairy fat or something in it, but they've given it a fancy name....

And air fresheners! Don't get me started on flaming air fresheners!

I think one thing that annoys me (I'm straying OT a bit, but go with it), is that people can put all this energy into producing pointless 'new' guff, when so many important problems are still unsorted. We can make a minute electronic thing, with the tiniest battery, but solar and wind generation are still not efficient enough to seriously compete with fossil fuels. Imagine if the energy directed into creating 57 different types of i-pod had gone into improving renewable energy...

 

[Mr Pig]

I find it quite distasteful that the UK government is hell-bent on "reflating" the economy by injecting money to enable people who haven't got any at the moment to spend on things that they don't need or want.

Exactly, great post. Can't people see that the system crashed because it is fundamentally unsustainable? It can't go on?

I was up at the tip a few weeks ago, you want to see the container full of TVs! Many looked quite new, lots of flat-screens in there. Years ago if your TV was faulty you got a man in to fix it. Today people buy a new TV because the old one doesn't match the curtains! The main TV we have is a Sony Trinitron CRT, great TV sets. We bought it used from a retired couple just up the road. It was perfect and I asked the guy why they were selling it. He said that his wife just wanted a flat one. They've got money, live in a good-sized house with a big lounge and the TV sits on the corner of the fireplace. The new TV is the same size as the old one, takes up no less room and in fact the only real difference is that the picture isn't as good as the old one! Not my words but the words of the seller, talking about his daft wife. Will we stop when all natural resources are in landfill sites?

 

[MarkF]

Me too. I'm just not comfortable with it.

Me neither but I had to learn the lesson first, I got ino CC debt in the late '80's (a similar time to now) and it was horrible. Once back on my feet I offered maybe 60% of the debt as a one -off final payment, it was accepted. I don't see that I did anything wrong, it was business transaction and one that was obviously acceptable to the CC company, morals and ethics? I didn't see them being implemented to determine the astronomical % figure I was paying on the debt. Since then I have only used a CC when absolutely neccessary, a hire car abroad for instance and I have never had a loan apart from a mortgage.

I've watched with dismay as friends and family have spent this illusionary "profit", the non-tangible cash that they thought they had. My sibling is a perfect example, even when times were "good" in the past 3 years she never had any real money, I (average house, manky car but with actual real live cash) had to take her kids on holiday. But she did, of course have a brand new BMW3 to match her husbands, they also have a swimming pool at the bottom of their manicured garden. She is pen pusher for the IR and he is a warehousman!!! Of course, it has all now gone belly up, how utterly predictable.

The comments about peer pressure and "face" are so true but ultimately you have to accept personal responsibility and deal with the results.

 

[Kirstie]

Unfortunately I have seen this from both sides too. I have always been extremely prudent with money, graduated with hardly any debt, invested wisely in a house and generally lived within my means. My conservative attitude towards money and spending stemmed from an upbringing where my dad, who was a businessman, lost everything because of a corrupt business partner. We had to start again when I was a teenager and he was nearly 50.

My other half has had to learn the hard way. His family have very litte money anyway, and so he grew up not really knowing the value of money. Once he went to uni (as a mature student) he got into masses of debt, thinking it was normal, and got into trouble. He couldn't control his spending. Instead of paying it off with my help (he had money from me anyway), he went behind my back and spent a load more on my credit card to 'appear' as if things were OK. In the end he had nearly 15 grand off me.

Needless to say I found out eventually and it nearly ended our marriage. We had to remortgage the house to get out of the situation. Nobody would look at us mortgage wise because of his bad credit history so we nearly ended up in the sub-prime market. However, we had a great mortgage advisor and got an OK mortgage. To his credit, he has worked hard and paid off all of his debts. And it looks as though he's learned his lesson, which is good. Obviously now there is a big chunk of equity out of the house and because it has dropped in value we are back where we started.

Reading back over that it sounds really bad, doesn't it? The stress at the time was terrible.

 

[swee'pea99]

The main TV we have is a Sony Trinitron CRT, great TV sets. We bought it used from a retired couple just up the road. It was perfect and I asked the guy why they were selling it. He said that his wife just wanted a flat one.

'er indoors drives me nuts on this one. We also have a Sony Trinitron CRT, with a way better picture than all but the best flat screens (bought off ebay for a song - 'cos it's not a flat screen). I'm always getting 'why can't we get a flat screen?', to which the only possible answer is what the hell for? So we can have a bloody great hole behind the screen, which is exactly where we want it to be? You want to shell out hundreds of quid for a hole?

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Reading back over that it sounds really bad, doesn't it? The stress at the time was terrible.

Yeah, I remember all too well! Like you, I have never really had debts. Still don't. I was brought up to be very careful with money. My wife too. The only difference is that I never had much in the way of savings either until recently.

 

[ChrisKH]

Not my area of expertise, but surely if you offer a percentage of the debt, you still have another part of the debt which they write off. Won't your credit rating gets a black mark as a result? If it's in full and final settlement and there is no effect on your credit rating then why lend in the first place?

I was made redundant 16 years ago and this was definitely not an option I could take without affecting my credit rating. If you're in the position of not being able to eat, etc. then obviously your credit rating is not going to be a major concern but it is the first thing I thought of when I read this thread.