Anyone ever thrown a full bottle at a car?

[ComedyPilot]

Do you ride dangerously around peds?

No, neither do I, and the courts should do their job and punish anyone that does.

Anyone caught on the new cycle lanes riding dangerously around peds/other cyclists should be given on the spot fines of £100. Maybe the lesson might get through.

People just don't do it in Holland as they are more civilised than us 'Island Monkeys' (as I remember the Germans call us)

 

[ComedyPilot]

Lets not forget though, road tax is now more of an environmental tax, my understanding is most road & transport projects are funded laregly by general taxation??

I don't think Joe Public would go with the concept of funding a network for none motorised users for many reasons. Firslty, they'd see it as another "green" initiative by stealth. Secondly it would bring peds & cyclists into much closer contact. And the hierarchy in the UK seems to be 4 wheels>2 wheels with engine>pedestrian>cyclist.

Imagine the Daily Mail the first time bike vs granny happens, and the granny comes off worse?

And as cyclists and peds, that's money creamed off the motorist for the ENVIRONMENT'S benefit. Ergo as cyclists we benefit the environment, so that money should be spent on our infrastructure.

 

[XmisterIS]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUmXPEB6TLQ

Fantastic idea; but can you imagine the indignant snorts of rage from the not insignificant section of society typified by the boorish Audi driver mentioned at the start of this thread?

 

[ComedyPilot]

They only act like that because of the way they perceive themselves to be in the heirarchy (sp?) of the road.

 

[Joe24]

The dutch pay about €100-€150 a quarter in road 'tax' depending on car size. They pay about €1.60 a litre for petrol, and insurance prices are comparable to the UK.

So we have millions more vehicles, paying less road 'tax' and similar fuel prices and insurance. In my reckoning we have a bigger pot to delve into to pay for the infrastructure?

Except we dont, because alot of roads keep being repaired?
Although, some money is wasted.
Theres a large round which i go round when i go to my GFs. Its over Hucknal way. They coned it off so it was just one lane, had road works on it, and what have they done to this round about? Tarmacked a big strip all the way around
I asked my GF about it, she said that they just needed to use up some money.
Absolutly pointless, and whats the cycle facility there? Its just a normal path, but its a wide road.
What they should have done is put a proper cycle path, or a proper lane on the road.
Its not a dangerous road though, because its so wide you dont really get passed close, so there's no problem there.
I dont think England will turn into anything like Holland with bikes. For a start, we have hills, which make it hard for people, so they dont do it. Which non-fit cyclist fancies getting off their bikes and pushing them up a hill, after trying to get up most of it, and failing?
We also have the wrong bikes. Loads of BSO mountain bike things, which fall apart.
Over there, they have the town bikes, that wont fall apart, and if they do they dont care, still keep riding.
Its not on price either. A friend of mine has moved out to Holland, and those bikes new she says arent cheap. Yet most people over here dont want to spend over £100 on a bike.
Its the British, or a large number of the British, i think, that means that English wont be able to become anywhere near what its like in Holland.
CP, you say about people in the Netherlands not riding dangerously around peds. Well, they dont, but they do ride crazy. BUT, peds WILL get out the way of cyclists. Its a fact. They will move well out of the way, and give them more then enough room to ride past.
Cars are shoot scared of cyclists aswell. Thats a FACT. I was on the road cycling, when there was a cobbled cycle lane, and i shoot up car drivers by just being on the road.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I was the person getting off and walking up the hill.

What changed me?

Effort and a willingness to try.

On my 18sp MTB Hybrid when I first commuted, I had to go down onto the granny ring 1st gear to get up a hill on the way to work. Now i approach on the big ring in 4th (out of 6) and just power up.

Proof we can do it if we try. We just have to try, that's all.

 

[aJohnson]

No, I wouldn't waste a bottle on them. I would waste the contents if it's water though.

 

[Jonathan M]

Do you ride dangerously around peds?

No, neither do I, and the courts should do their job and punish anyone that does.

Anyone caught on the new cycle lanes riding dangerously around peds/other cyclists should be given on the spot fines of £100. Maybe the lesson might get through.

People just don't do it in Holland as they are more civilised than us 'Island Monkeys' (as I remember the Germans call us)

No,I don't, but the issue would not be one of blame, those sections of middle britain media would brand the cyclist at fault "Cyclist runs down elderly grandmother", AFAIK cyclists in the Netherlands are pretty good at fitting & using bells on bikes, so it would require steps from the cycling community to take steps to ensure that using shared lanes wouldn't result in further demonising of cyclists in general, and an acceptance from peds that the route they are using is shared with wheeled users.

As for fines, enforceable? Probably not, the current road laws go pretty much unfollowed & unenforced (like my Audi owner in post 1 of the thread, how long has the law required hands free kits, yet she can afford a car close to £40k and either does not have or will not use a hands free), and such fines would immediately be picked by the media as revenue generation by stealth, even if cyclists were paying.

Better use of the resources we have through education & re-training is they way forward.

 

[nigelnorris]

I think the boredom would drive me off my bike if I had to ride those Dutch paved paths. Can't get up any speed, and tbh although it sounds stupid I do actually enjoy the ride through traffic to work and back. A bit of adrenalin can't help but set you up for a day at the chalk face.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I am all for education, but that would have us precisely where?

Still on the same congested, high-speed differential roads and streets that have (and will continue to) claim the lives of hudreds of cyclists/pedestrians and drivers.

Not good enough.

We need a 'revolution' on the scale the Dutch and Danish did it in the 1970's and 1980's and demand a better solution to the safety issue. We have 40m more people to do it, we have the green tax revenue to fund it, we just need to get it done.

Sadly, what we are lumbered with, (like a big corporate mill stone round our necks), is a motor-crazy media (and general public) to win round.

 

[ComedyPilot]

Another solution would be for me to piss off and live in Holland and stop pontificating on here?

 

[Joe24]

I was the person getting off and walking up the hill.

What changed me?

Effort and a willingness to try.

On my 18sp MTB Hybrid when I first commuted, I had to go down onto the granny ring 1st gear to get up a hill on the way to work. Now i approach on the big ring in 4th (out of 6) and just power up.

Proof we can do it if we try. We just have to try, that's all.

And that is what many British people lack. Its hard to do something, so we say bollocks to it.They have a car, they paid alot for, which can get them to work without them straining themself.
Or a bike, which they would actually have to ride and put effort in.

To be honest, if i had a car i might get lazy. I would probably drive over to see my GF, instead of ride.
I probably wouldnt drive to the shops, because you now have to pay to park there, but if it was crappy weather then i would drive, and park somewhere on a side street.
Its pure lazyness, and i know it.

CP, i was going to suggest you just piss off and live in the Netherlands(lets get the countries name right here) but i was being polite.

 

[ComedyPilot]

And that is what many British people lack. Its hard to do something, so we say bollocks to it.They have a car, they paid alot for, which can get them to work without them straining themself.
Or a bike, which they would actually have to ride and put effort in.

To be honest, if i had a car i might get lazy. I would probably drive over to see my GF, instead of ride.
I probably wouldnt drive to the shops, because you now have to pay to park there, but if it was crappy weather then i would drive, and park somewhere on a side street.
Its pure lazyness, and i know it.

CP, i was going to suggest you just piss off and live in the Netherlands(lets get the countries name right here) but i was being polite.

Funnily enough, that's what my Dutch colleague said on the phone, when I spoke to him about Dutch road 'tax' earlier today.

 

[Jonathan M]

We need a 'revolution' on the scale the Dutch and Danish did it in the 1970's and 1980's and demand a better solution to the safety issue. We have 40m more people to do it, we have the green tax revenue to fund it, we just need to get it done.

But is there enough of a critcal mass of concerned people to demand this revolution, and overcome the car culture? OK, those parents who argue it isn't safe for kids to walk, is it RTC that they stress about, or the random paedophile? Do peds actually consider themselves a distinct group, or are they using pavements to get somewhere or as a means to an end. I don't hear many people who actually walk to work saying "what a lousy/great/wet/windy walk to work today". The Ramblers with the right to roam mentality would probably boycott shared use lanes anyway, demanding them all to be footpaths .

Even from the replies in this thread (I can't believe what a discussion about bottle throwing could lead to) the opinion of cyclists here is split, and cyclings profile in this country is only improving off the back of competitive success, not a change in society or its attitude towards those who use cycling as a form of transport.

@Joe24, sadly if you do get a car you will probably slip into that habit of "just nipping out" in the car for something, or extending the area that is open to you/your GF/your mates by driving. I've done that for 20+ years, it has only been the surrender of my driving licence that means I now consider what I need to achieve and think "walk, bike, or public transport?". Option 2 normally wins though!

 

[ComedyPilot]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/162469/221412/221549/227755/328843/pedalcyclistfsheet07.pdf

I am sure if the government were lobbied, and the families of people seriously injured or killed in collision with vehicles were involved, there could be a turning point. After all, how many cyclists have been killed in london alone this year? Would these people still be here had there been infrastructure in place similar to the Netherlands? (sic joe24)