Anyone ever thrown a full bottle at a car?

[Crankarm]

I think I have got the point, and I don't wish to get into another online argument.

We could all say, let's make do and mend. But, given the fact the Dutch road network was in as big a mess as our in the 1970's, with all the accompanying cycling fatalities, the Dutch people decided (all 15 million of them) that enough was enough, and they lobbied their government to change things. And it happened.

1) Who said follow roads? I wouldn't want to cycle anywhere near a CO2 belching vehicle if I could avoid it. The beauty of cycles is that they are very agile and cycle paths can wind their way almost anywhere.

2) With a combined population of 20m, and a land mass similar to the UK, the Danish and Dutch managed it with a third of the taxable population of the UK. In my reckoning, with today's incomes (compared to the 70's when the Dutch started) we are better placed to fund this. Maybe if we spent less on having people sat on their @rses, and made them do the work, and/or if we didn't feel the paranoia to have to buy a fleet of nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers etc,and fund large groups of people to occupy (and die in) lands far away for NO reason other than sucking up to zarking yanks there'd be a bit in the pot to make the paths?

3) Provision of cycling infrastructure will lead more people away from the car, and make car drivers aware of the vulnerability of cyclists. The courts should be made to act with more severity on cases of road-rage and injurious collisions, then the message might get through that driving tons of metal at high speed in CLOSE proximity to others carries a GREAT amount of responsibility.

4) I don't advocate forcing anyone off the roads system, I just believe our antiquated system is choking and needs a release. Provide facilities and they will be used. I am not talking about any two penny linemarking schemes, I am talking about real investment for the good of the whole country.

Do you get off on making leading questions, hinting that someone might be racist, sexist, homophobic? I am not, so stop it.

A better solution would be to stop all the macho chest-beating bullshit that is fed to drivers by the media. Magazines, newspapers, TV programs and films all glamourise cars, and the 'Too fast, Too furious' and MaxPower lifestyles.

Trouble is, a LOT of people make a LOT of money from this, and once they have the power that comes with it, they don't want to let it go. I see lemmings everyday in my local town, driving like complete cretins in cars that look like they've crashed into Halfords shop window. Where did they get the idea from? The media.

How much longer will it take for the UK populus to realise that they are being treated like idiots, and are missing out on real life, just so they can carry on with their image conscious (and profitable for 'the man') lives?

Wow! CP something certainly got you stirred up this morning..........

In fact I nominate your post as "Post of the Year" and we still have just over three months to run.

You echo my thoughts entirely.

But alas I don't bother thinking about stuff like this any more as it so upsets me seeing how things can and are done in Holland, Germany, Denmark and France. I know Britain is a crap country for proper cycling, except in Centre Parcs brochures, it will ever be thus. We seem to have a whole political class of lardy arsed myopic cretins representing us whose only activities are to see how deep they can push their self obsessed interest snouts into the trough. The only one AFAIK that showed the remotest promise for cycling was Ken Livingstone who was replaced by a decidely disappointing Boris Johnson. So now we are back to a barren desert of indifference. All politicians should be provided with a bike as their means of transport and if they claim other travel expenses there would have to be a damned good reason. Kids should be forced to cycle/walk to schools and any other students. And the police and courts need to come down hard on motorists who injure/kill pedestrians and cyclists. See I've started. I was determined not to do this as it gets me so angry and upset. The car lobby in this country is just so strong and a lucrative source of taxation for any government. No government has the balls to change this or offer or put in place any constructive schemes to massively change travelling habits whilst still maintaining the Treasury's receipts through taxation.

I just cycle my bike and try to think about other things. Thinking about this sort of stuff too often and the behaviour in OP's original post can make one a very bitter and twisted angry individual.

CP you best move to Holland for your sanity. You know you're onto a losing battle arguing with closet thugs on here.

 

[Crankarm]

Where's Magnatom these days?

 

[Glow worm]

Another solution would be for me to piss off and live in Holland and stop pontificating on here?

No don't do that CP, and anyway, they also get the internet over there apparently I hear, so you'd be straight back on here reminding us how crap the UK is! (with fair justification).

I'd like to see perhaps a mix of the improved infrastructure you talk of as well as improved driver eduction. On infrastructure, I was in Hungary a few years back and I noticed in rural areas, all the major roads had little lanes next to them that were almost entirely used by folk on bikes. It looked fantastic. I'm sure that as infrastructure improves, more folk will cycle who also drive, and their treatment of cyclists will improve greatly on the roads.

I think also the media has a lot to answer for. Not in the obvoius moronic Daily Wail nonsense about the menace of cyclists but in more subltle ways. For example, in soap operas, watched by millions, I'd like to see more of the characters using bicycles instead of their cages. Make cycling part of everyday behaviour in these progs. and you may get people sat on thier fat arses at home thinking- hey- I might give that a go.

Also, much as I think Sustrans are great- (and all the other cycle groups) we need a much stronger body to fight our corner- maybe a Cycle Agency or some such thing with teeth. someone referred to this on here recently and it's something I've thought for years. Cagers have the idiotic AA and RAC with that chinless wonder they wheel out whenever the put upon motorist is picked on again poor loves (I forget the gormless bastard's name), well we need a cycling equivalent. Though less gormless of course!

Most depressingly for me at least though, is the knowledge that the Government see motoring as a nice little cash cow through fuel duty and tax. It is simply not in the Governments interests to reduce car use. If we all started getting rid of our cars they'd lose a fortune. That my friends I believe is the real reason we will never see things improve (and why the UK is sh*t).

Finally, I'm with CP in that I would do anything to avoid sharing space with cars, I don't consider it being forced off the road, just self preservation and wanting a more enjoyable ride away from peanut drivers.

 

[Glow worm]

Cagers have the idiotic AA and RAC with that chinless wonder they wheel out whenever the put upon motorist is picked on again poor loves (I forget the gormless bastard's name),

I've remembered the tit's name now - it's Edmund King of the AA.

 

[semislickstick]

Finally, I'm with CP in that I would do anything to avoid sharing space with cars, I don't consider it being forced off the road, just self preservation and wanting a more enjoyable ride away from peanut drivers.

I'm with you on that too, the roads aren't wide enough to 'share'. Someone will have to slow down and wait(must irritate the nicest of drivers sometimes) or squeeze past, especially scary on the rural roads where there is no alternative, I hate it when someone whizz's past me within inches at 60-70mph+. But fair enough if others want to cycle on the road, there are bad cycle paths, there really needs to be a group that plans them from a cycling point of view....and maybe even priority over the roads at crossing points.

 

[betty swollocks]

A couple of years ago in our local 'pedestrianised' high street - (I put it in inverted commas, as buses, post vans and assorted other vehicles are allowed in by some radio-controlled bollards) I was walking, carrying a couple of bottles of water in a carrier bag.
Anyway, a BMW (yes it was a BMW) roars round the bollards, scattering pedestrians and stops outside a cash machine. The driver gets out, does his transaction and on returning to his car, I confront him politely and advise that he's not allowed to drive here. I get told to **** off.
So, I stood in front of his car and advised him to go back the way he came. He didn't. Instead, he accelerated into me and took the skin off my shins with his front bumper as I skipped out of the way. At the same time, I saw red and swung my carrier bag at his windscreen. This was an instinctive reaction - a sudden flare up of anger on my part - but the bag with the weight of the bottles stoved in his windscreen. He then sped off.
I immediately reported the incident to the police. I was arrested, given a warning and had my DNA and photo taken.
I understood from the police that he later reported the incident too.
Retaliation, which results in damage to a car is not advised.

 

[Crankarm]

A couple of years ago in our local 'pedestrianised' high street - (I put it in inverted commas, as buses, post vans and assorted other vehicles are allowed in by some radio-controlled bollards) I was walking, carrying a couple of bottles of water in a carrier bag.
Anyway, a BMW (yes it was a BMW) roars round the bollards, scattering pedestrians and stops outside a cash machine. The driver gets out, does his transaction and on returning to his car, I confront him politely and advise that he's not allowed to drive here. I get told to **** off.
So, I stood in front of his car and advised him to go back the way he came. He didn't. Instead, he accelerated into me and took the skin off my shins with his front bumper as I skipped out of the way. At the same time, I saw red and swung my carrier bag at his windscreen. This was an instinctive reaction - a sudden flare up of anger on my part - but the bag with the weight of the bottles stoved in his windscreen. He then sped off.
I immediately reported the incident to the police. I was arrested, given a warning and had my DNA and photo taken.
I understood from the police that he later reported the incident too.
Retaliation, which results in damage to a car is not advised.

And what happened to the driver of the BMW?

 

[betty swollocks]

And what happened to the driver of the BMW?

I don't know and don't care tbh.
Some hooligans wear business suits and ties.

 

[XmisterIS]

CP, you say about people in the Netherlands not riding dangerously around peds. Well, they dont, but they do ride crazy.

Ah! Yes. I think they ride crazy and drive crazy in both Holand and Belgium!

Last time I was in Bruges we got a taxi from the Airport to the hotel. The driver said something in French that probably meant, "hang on to your bushy tail!". And then he just floored it all the way to the hotel - including the cobbles!

 

[D4VOW]

I carry my Fahgettaboudit Mini tucked into the back of my shorts/trousers. Have thought many times about pulling it out but never have. Would leave a decent sized dent/cracked window if used.

 

[Jonathan M]

I don't know and don't care tbh.
Some hooligans wear business suits and ties.

Surely he must have been seen, as he'd caused you an injury - surprised in this CCTV obsessed nation that this event, or his transgression into the pedestrian area, hadn't been observed.

 

[BentMikey]

I want to tear my hair out in shame and horror every time I see people promoting cycle farcilities. Why the heck would anyone want to ride slower, experience more danger, and be segregated into a bantustan away from roads? The Netherlands is a good place to cycle in spite of the cycle lanes, not because of them.

We have beautiful public highways here, let's get rid of all the horrible stupid paint and other cycle lanes. They are not improving our lot in the slightest.

AAAAARrrrrrrgghhh!!!!!!

 

[ComedyPilot]

BM, fair play to people who want to ride round like their @rse is on fire, but the majority of people who do (and would) cycle would benefit from a Dutch-style infrastructure. Cycle promotion in this country is centred around buying the most expensive carbon road bike or tricked-up full suss MTB. This is narrow-sighted and for the benefit of one group only, the shops selling the bikes. Most people that would convert to some sort of cycle use instead of a car would use a utility-style bike for commuting/shopping errands - just like they use the car for now. It is wrong to market them with a twitchy lightweight roadie, or an all singing/dancing MTB just for a 3/4 mile run to the shop.

 

[BentMikey]

Yeah CP, sorry I had a bit of a rant. I know your heart is in the right place, it's just the methods I don't agree with.

I don't think cycle lanes are good for any type of cyclist. They add danger to us all, no matter what kind of rider we are, and they do nothing to reduce danger to us. What cycle lanes/paths/farcilities do is to increase the actual danger, whilst reducing the perception of that danger. That's just bad.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I remember reading through Auntie Helen's recent write-up of her German cycling tour that several times when they were on the road rather than the cycle path, they got shouted at by motorists to get off the road.

Sadly, that's the situation we'd end up with if we had a Dutch style infrastructure.

By all means have some Sustrans paths meandering around if you want to pootle in the countryside, but I want to use the roads to get from A to B and I fail to see why I should be bullied off them by Audi or BMW drivers.

To get the little old lady happy with going shopping on a bike, it would be far better if road rage in all forms were eliminated by better driver education, as well as other intiatives such as 20 mph zones, removing street furniture etc, to allow all bike users to be comfortable using the roads.