Anyone gone car free?

[Boris Bajic]

Would you though? Very difficult or just mildly inconvenient? My parents live out in the sticks. Nearest town is two miles walk away, nearest pub two miles in the opposite direction. On my recent visit I did a LOT of walking but I wouldn't say it was difficult or even inconvenient. My parents are both 85 and also don't seem to have any issues with not having a car.

We would have to change our lives considerably. As it is, we don't use the car for trips within our small market town:

Church on foot. Church activities on foot or bike. Walk or cycle to the station. Walk or cycle to the local shops. Cycle to cadets. Visit friends on foot. Walk to restaurants. Groceries bought online and delivered.

Then it gets a little more complicated. Our frequent car use as follows (not including commuting):

Brother and family 120 miles away. Mother-in-Law 70 miles away. Friends in near-by towns with poor transport links 15-25 miles away. Municipal dump 1 mile away, but we generate a lot of garden waste. Children to be collected from late-finishing events15-25 miles away. Children to be taken to sports events 15-25 miles away. Tonight I'm taking middle child to a cycle race 22 miles from here with no transport links. I am the last of the fascist parents, but I wouldn't ask a teen to ride a TT and ride 44 miles there and back over biggish hills.

(If you want an argument in favour of cars, go to a cycle club race meet. Wall-to-wall estate cars with racks full of bicycles. Not much evil there, I'd contend.)

I've only scratched the surface of our car use. Much of it could be done away with. Much already has been. We drive less now than when the children were younger, as they can hop on trains and buses where there's a link. But without a car our current modus vivendi would be gone with the morning mist.

I do take your point, but I'm not an 85-year-old pensiner.

 

[Boris Bajic]

... If the Devil existed, I reckon he couldn't invent a better way of corrupting people than giving them cars.

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Sexual attraction
4. Jealousy
5. Hand-held fire arms.
6. Console games.
7. Bread and Butter Pudding.
8. Jeremy Kyle.
9. Tobacco.

The list is endless. I wouldn't put the motor car in the top 30. Anything built by Citroen between 1934 and 1985 wouldn't even be on the list.

Likewise the Lancia Aurelia B20, the 1960s Abarth FIAT 500 SS, the Series I FIAT 850 Spider and the Renault 8 Gordini.

None of the above lists is exhaustive. As ever, I am completely right and everyone else is wrong - even if they agree with me.

 

[sidevalve]

I hear two things here, a lot of "oh yes I'm car free" but oddly the wife still has one. Hmm , Not really car free then. As for cars being "evil" , sorry but grow up. "Would it be so bad if the western world --- " well if you want to live in the third world with ALL that that implies then be my guest, [note just forget the pretty little carbon forks and alloy frames, check out the bikes in use in India or china.The disabled of course would have NO personal transport.
Finally remember this, the automotive industry pours so much money into the exchequer it's almost unbelievable. It doesn't stop with road tax [I'll call it what I want] as everyone seems to think, which is a few billion, then comes tax from new car purcheses, import duties [a lot], tax paid on EVERY SINGLE spare, from tyres to wiper blades,the tax paid by every single garage / dealership / spares or tuning shop, not to forget the income tax paid by everybody thus [and that's a hell of a lot] employed. Add on money raised from minor fines, parking/speeding etc all pouring into the government purse. Let's not omit the hundreds employed producing steel castings for the manufacturers and the people delivering all this equipment [they may be driving trucks or vans but they are paying even more tax]. Add on people who MUST use cars [still paying tax of course] sales reps, mobile tradesmen etc. OH and then tere's fuel duty.This does not of course include the thousands employed on road maintenance and construction [all paying tax of course] because if anyone thinks the roads would be maintained as they are for bicycles and trucks you aint thinking clearly.
Take away the OVERALL contribution of the motor car and yes we would be back to the third world with all the poverty, inequality and hardship that that really involves.
PS What right has ANYONE to label me evil because I choose to drive a car.

 

[400bhp]

Not fair. You beat me to it!



That doesn't mean they can steer without crossing their hands, though - not while remembering to signal, take the correct lane, check their mirrors, look behind while reversing, reverse slowly, and not cut anyone up (among other things).

What's wrong with crossing your hands?

 

[lulubel]

What's wrong with crossing your hands?

Nigel was saying it would be easy for dangerous drivers to drive properly to pass a retest every year. According to DSA standards (and they're the ones who would be doing the testing), none of us drive properly, and crossing hands is just one silly example. Technically, you're supposed to steer by feeding the wheel through your hands rather than taking one hand away from the wheel and crossing it over the other because it's supposed to give you more control. Driving instructors have heated arguments amongst themselves over it, but generally you'll be marked down on a test if you cross your hands.

My point was that it's very difficult to pass a test once you've been driving for a while and developed some "undesirable" habits, and the more undesirable habits you have - the more dangerous you are - the harder it's likely to be.

 

[400bhp]

Nigel was saying it would be easy for dangerous drivers to drive properly to pass a retest every year. According to DSA standards (and they're the ones who would be doing the testing), none of us drive properly, and crossing hands is just one silly example. Technically, you're supposed to steer by feeding the wheel through your hands rather than taking one hand away from the wheel and crossing it over the other because it's supposed to give you more control. Driving instructors have heated arguments amongst themselves over it, but generally you'll be marked down on a test if you cross your hands.

My point was that it's very difficult to pass a test once you've been driving for a while and developed some "undesirable" habits, and the more undesirable habits you have - the more dangerous you are - the harder it's likely to be.

I'm not sure if you are saying that you feel that crossing your hands is undesireable.

Let me assure you that, if done properly, it is absolutely fine.

I remember getting some race driving tuition about 8 years ago off an ex F1 test driver who also gave tuition to the police. I recall him saying that the police standards were changing to a system where crossing hands is acceptable.

Potentially, for a blanket driving test, teaching people a certain way to hold the wheel (or not as the case may be) is probably sensible as you want a minimum set of standards that are easy to adhere to.

 

[lulubel]

I'm not sure if you are saying that you feel that crossing your hands is undesireable.

I put it in inverted commas to try and make it clear I was expressing the DSA's opinion on the matter, not mine. I generally keep my own opinions about what makes a good or bad driver to myself because arguments about that tend to get nasty, and that isn't why I come on forums.

To be honest, now that I've stopped driving, I don't really have an interest in how people drive any more, as long as they give me plenty of room when they pass me on my bike. I just wanted to correct Nigel's assumption that it would be easy for anyone to pass a retest. It's actually very hard, as any driving instructor who's had to "retrain" an experienced driver to pass one could tell you.

 

[Alun]

Why do people think that because they can manage without a car, apart from the wife's of course and getting "occasional" lifts from friends and neighbours and the like, that everyone can?
It's almost as if they can't recognise that other people are different from themselves, have different circumstances, abilities, and needs.

 

[Ian Cooper]

I hear two things here, a lot of "oh yes I'm car free" but oddly the wife still has one. Hmm , Not really car free then.

Hmm. That would be true if I could drive, but I can't.

What right has ANYONE to label me evil because I choose to drive a car.

I don't think anyone did. I said car use tends to make bad habits turn deadly, and that that tendency was effectively 'evil'. I understand how much many car drivers are emotionally attached to the 3,000lb chunk of metal in their garage, but I think losing one's sense of humour over it is going a bit far.

 

[JozeeB]

At the mo I can't see myself being car free, due to poor public transport in my area. If I could get the bus to work in poor weather I would, but it would take me nearly an hour and a half to do a 3.5 mile journey to work due to rubbish connections (and I would not like to arrive at work with a bunch of fashion-conscious teenagers looking like a drowned rat, cold, wet and muddy when bad weather!!). Time limits me with child to get to ready for school too!
If I could sort work commutes, then I'd happily shop online as I hate it anyway and could get the heavy bulky items online and local shop the fresh stuff. Then just rely on OH's car for longer journeys. Would love to save the money, but just not practical at mo.

 

[middleagecyclist]

At the mo I can't see myself being car free, due to poor public transport in my area. If I could get the bus to work in poor weather I would, but it would take me nearly an hour and a half to do a 3.5 mile journey to work...

You drive rather than get the bus/tram/train when its raining/cold/windy? Can you not just get some decent cycle gear and have a change of clothing at the other end? Is there really no where for you to change/refresh?

I am fortunate in that I have a changing room and shower if I need it and I appreciate not everyone does but find it hard to believe finding a place to towel off and change clothing is impossible. Of course I am almost bald with a grade 1 on the rest so I dont have that problem to consider!

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I stayed car-free!

Yep, never driven in me life!

 

[al78]

. My parents are both 85 and also don't seem to have any issues with not having a car.

I presume they are still fully mobile. If so, then at some point the aging process will catch up with them and they will likely lose most of their mobility, so it may be worth thinking about how to deal with that now if you or they don't have access to motorized transport.

 

[middleagecyclist]

I presume they are still fully mobile. If so, then at some point the aging process will catch up with them and they will likely lose most of their mobility, so it may be worth thinking about how to deal with that now if you or they don't have access to motorized transport.

Taxi, Dial a Ride, Bus? Just because someone doesn't own a vehicle or have access to a family member/friend with one doesn't take away those choices surely?

 

[al78]

Taxi, Dial a Ride, Bus? Just because someone doesn't own a vehicle or have access to a family member/friend with one doesn't take away those choices surely?

The bus probably won't be viable (not door-to-door, may not be able to get on/off it*), taxis yes, assuming they can afford it. I'm not familiar with Dial a Ride, so can't comment on that.

*which was an issue with my grandmother.