Are the press relishing the fact a man is dying

[Davidc]

I think there's an aspect of vicious circle about it. Papers print what people want to read... but.. some people think the things in the papers are the things they ought to care about.

Agreed. it's people so cause and effect are, as usual, blurred.

 

[theclaud]

I thank God that I don't have an addiction. I read Fergal Keane's autobiography and remember his description of his first taste of alcohol at the age of something like 12 - he writes that it wasn't an unaccustomed taste, the sensation was more like, as he writes: "Hello old friend, where have you been all my life?" presumably because his mother was drinking in pregnancy.

You're right - it is pure presumption.

 

[Risex4]

This isn't a "press" problem, its a deeply ingrained social and cultural one.

Any illness, affliction or other deviance from the healthy normative is either accepted by society, or it isn't. Name it. Leprosy, AIDS/HIV. It takes a social perception shift for these things to be accepted with a sympathetic ear, until then sufferers are ostracised by the society they live in. If, god forbid, Gazza was struck with a form of cancer, opinion towards him would change in a heartbeat.

The fact is that mental illness and addictions are still stigmatised socially. It's not well understood by the community at large, and therefore is seen as an abomination. People (in the collective sense) will justify things like alcoholism as 'not a real illness', the person is 'just weak', or blah blah blah. Ultimately, its a form of self protection, revelling in it in a form of "I'm better off than you" self-valuing mindset, holding up public examples of the likes of Gazza as a benchmark to validate why things could be worse for themselves personally. The faux-pity isn't a genuine concern for the sufferers well-being, its a water mark which says "awe, you're in trouble, thank goodness I'm not down there at your level".

Hence why its so easy for the press to pray on someone like Paul Gascogine; it feeds a social stigma. When he eventually passes on, he will be celebrated and revered. Until then, society will mock and devalue him.

 

[RWright]

Too bad he doesn't have someone to stand up to him. Watching Amy Winehouse decline really bothered me. How parents of a child like that could sit there and watch her destroy herself just seemed so wrong to me, I was really sad when she died. I couldn't believe the whole world had sat back and watched her kill herself.

I don't have any children but I still like to think I would have tried much harder to help her had she been my child. I may have ended up in jail for kicking her ass but I would have went down swinging trying to save my kid, at least I like to think that. Sorry to hear there is someone else in the spotlight that doesn't have anyone in their life to help.

 

[Risex4]

Maybe it's a well-deserved social stigma? I don't know about you but I find it quite hard to dredge up a whole lot of sympathy for drunken celebrity wife-beaters like this - and Mr Best as another example - although you do have some valid things to say about mental illness and incapacity.

As someone who has diced with various addictions and mental illness for a large part of his adult life, I am going to try to measure my response very carefully.

I do not for once second condone "wife beating" or other symptoms of these illnesses. But ultimately that is what they are - symptoms. The problems comes from the fact that these symptoms are themselves socially abhorrent. And because they are, people are more concerned with the action, rather than the cause. Would you chastise a cancer patient for lying in bed all day, not getting up to be a productive member of society? No, of course you wouldn't even dream of it.

Mental illness exhibits itself in any number of ways. The least offensive are things like social isolationism, the stereotypical neighbourhood hermit. These kind of symptoms are tolerated as eccentricities but ultimately harmless. The other end of the scale is what we see in the news; wife beatings, addictions (which I seriously believe are the result of an illness, rather than a standalone problem), public episodes and the like. The problem is, that because these upset our collective sensibilities, we concentrate of the symptoms, rather than the problem itself. Hence the stigma. The symptoms of mental illness tend to outwardly witness pain to someone else, rather than physical ailments which witness pain to the self, and therefore people concentrate and sympathise on the victim of the symptom, not the victim of the illness which caused it

So, is it a "well deserved" social stigma? With the greatest of respect, you kind of demonstrate my point. You find it hard to sympathise with a "drunken celebrity wife beater", fine thats your right. I however do sympathise with the above - not the actions themselves, they are a horrid side affect of what he is suffering which unfortunately encompasses more than just his physical self. But you know what, I'd put money on that his "treatment" has been isolationist and unsympathetic - because of his symptoms - and very very few have actually stopped by in his life to ask in a truthful and sincere manner "what can I do to actually help you?" as opposed to "what can I do to get you to stop what you are doing?"

 

[TVC]

Like many I used to view those with addiction as weak people who could sort themselves out with a bit of effort if they really wanted to. That ignorant view was removed the day I was hit by a car.
I was held overnight at the Clinical Decisions Unit at Leicester Royal Infirmary for observation having taken a good crack to the bonce. Late in the evening an agitated and abusive drunk was installed in the bed opposite mine. For the first couple of hours he was thoruoghly horrible swearing and insulting the nurses and fellow patients, the rest of us being there through some kind of trauma, and in no mood for this. Eventually he calmed down and sobbed himself to sleep.
The following morning the consultant did his teaching round to decide how we should all be despatched either to wards or back to the world. By now our drunk was completely sober and what came next was what changed my view. The guy was well known to the medical staff, the consultant knowing his history without notes. He was now an intelligent, coherent man, fully aware of his disease and his inability to control it. There ensued discussions of treatment programmes and why he was no longer eligable because he had failed on them before. In the end he pleaded with the staff to admit him, because he knew if he left he would go straight into the cycle again.
His absolute understanding of his predicament shocked me, compounded by the genuine shame and remorse he expressed as he went round the ward and apologised for his behavior to all the other patients there, and the nurses, many he knew by name.

In my discussion with him I saw and learned that he was an intelligent guy with a similar set of opportunities and drives as me, who had in his mid 30s gone off on a destructive route, not of his choosing.

Statistics show that any one of us could end up where he was at any time, indeed, over the time I have spent on this forum there have been a couple of members who have admitted to on goung alcohol addiction, neither of whome are still posting. Occasionally I remember them and hope they are still winning.

Look at the press photos of Paul Gascoigne as they revel in his illness and think, that could be you in 12 months time.

 

[Risex4]

Like many I used to view those with addiction as weak people who could sort themselves out with a bit of effort if they really wanted to. That ignorant view was removed the day I was hit by a car.
I was held overnight at the Clinical Decisions Unit at Leicester Royal Infirmary for observation having taken a good crack to the bonce. Late in the evening an agitated and abusive drunk was installed in the bed opposite mine. For the first couple of hours he was thoruoghly horrible swearing and insulting the nurses and fellow patients, the rest of us being there through some kind of trauma, and in no mood for this. Eventually he calmed down and sobbed himself to sleep.
The following morning the consultant did his teaching round to decide how we should all be despatched either to wards or back to the world. By now our drunk was completely sober and what came next was what changed my view. The guy was well known to the medical staff, the consultant knowing his history without notes. He was now an intelligent, coherent man, fully aware of his disease and his inability to control it. There ensued discussions of treatment programmes and why he was no longer eligable because he had failed on them before. In the end he pleaded with the staff to admit him, because he knew if he left he would go straight into the cycle again.
His absolute understanding of his predicament shocked me, compounded by the genuine shame and remorse he expressed as he went round the ward and apologised for his behavior to all the other patients there, and the nurses, many he knew by name.

In my discussion with him I saw and learned that he was an intelligent guy with a similar set of opportunities and drives as me, who had in his mid 30s gone off on a destructive route, not of his choosing.

Statistics show that any one of us could end up where he was at any time, indeed, over the time I have spent on this forum there have been a couple of members who have admitted to on goung alcohol addiction, neither of whome are still posting. Occasionally I remember them and hope they are still winning.

Look at the press photos of Paul Gascoigne as they revel in his illness and think, that could be you in 12 months time.

This is so heartbreaking to me its untrue.

Scratched.

 

[Yellow Fang]

He doesn't look all that unwell at the moment. I dare say he has fifteen years left yet.

 

[TVC]

There's no reply to that Risex hope you stay well. Despite this being a cycling forum, there are a number of genuinely good people around here. I've noticed that if you are not at your best then if you mention it on here, then there is always someone to empathise and help, whilst everyone else sends genuine good wishes.

 

[Risex4]

There's no reply to that Risex hope you stay well. Despite this being a cycling forum, there are a number of genuinely good people around here. I've noticed that if you are not at your best then if you mention it on here, then there is always someone to empathise and help, whilst everyone else sends genuine good wishes.

Sincerest thanks TVC. I don't know how much of my original post you read before I scratched it as "too much", but I think internet forums actually reinforce my point to some degree. I can come online semi-anonymously and say things as they are. Other anonymous people - who don't have an emotional investment in the individual - can come on and type what they please: written media being notoriously unreliable for conveying sincerity. Witness any number of RIP posts anywhere online. Its bizarre, but then internet forums, by virtue of their anonymous walk-in-walk-out life-disconnect social functionality aren't a real reflection of real life.

Seriously, if anyone is wondering what I'm on about and has the balls to do it, try telling people that you know that you are an alcoholic - that you've been hiding it but you can't go long without a drink. Or worse, that you are suicidal. If you're lucky, your very nearest and dearest will show proper concern for you and may even take proactive steps to help. But step outside your intimate circle, and I'll guarantee you get shunned. Their emotional investment is too high but their comprehension is too low.

 

[TVC]

I didn't see any of your original post, too busy correcting the android based typos in my essay.
It is true, on a couple of occasions people have reached out on here, and in one I know, local cyclechatters actually arrived on their doorstep and gave real world help.

 

[hobbitonabike]

For alot of people I think it boils down to the fact that they will help/sympathise with anyone who is trying to help themselves. The problem comes when the person stops trying to help themself. This is true for any addiction. If someone has repeatedly failed but is still trying at least they are trying. People who do not try and carry on are bound to lose peoples sympathy. Most people will not invest emotionally if that person has no desire to cgange and is on a downward spiral. Only those close enough to fight to the end or until they can't do anymore will hang in on what seems a hopeless case. I don't know the details of Gazzas life apart from the basic public details. Its a shame. He has had so many opprtunities in his life and could have done so much more.

 

[Puddles]

Seriously, if anyone is wondering what I'm on about and has the balls to do it, try telling people that you know that you are an alcoholic - that you've been hiding it but you can't go long without a drink. Or worse, that you are suicidal. If you're lucky, your very nearest and dearest will show proper concern for you and may even take proactive steps to help. But step outside your intimate circle, and I'll guarantee you get shunned. Their emotional investment is too high but their comprehension is too low.

You would not believe how ironic this statement is to me. My mother is an alcoholic in recovery, she has been sober for 9 years now. She was a high functioning alcoholic, I doubt anyone but my Father & I could tell she had had a drink most of the time. My daughters "god-father" is an alcoholic in recovery, he also has some mental issues he is still battling with. In short my circle of friends include quite a few people battling with addictions because they are all very open about it and when circles of friends cross I do get remarks about how could you etc stemming from as you say low comprehension, out dated stigma etc.

I am not sure how to explain this one properly but here goes...
User76 was just a week old when I visited S. in the DOP he had been in there for about 3 weeks, not through drink but them attempting to stabilise his medication & also help him process & deal with issues spilling over from child hood, he attempted suicide. The unit gave us a private room as you cannot take children on the open ward. He was so thankful that I did what was a really small thing, that I trusted him enough to let him see her and hold her. Strangely User76 has always been a "Mama's girl" as a baby she would not sit in anyone elses arms for long she is an anti-social little wotsit, but with S. from the get go she has always been happy to be held by him and be with him. Although she probably only saw him once a month she was and still is content to be with him, he was the first person she volunteered to go with willingly, she took to him quicker than she took to my parents who she saw daily. People may think I am a bit nuts, but I think she felt a need in him to be loved & accepted and also that he was giving out unconditional love too. Children do tend to flock with him, he is not an "outgoing gregarious fun" type of adult with them, he is very quiet & reserved. I can almost guaruntee that at Maggots birthday bash on Sunday, despite, the fact that he will choose a corner and sit very quietly & unobtrusively within 1/2 hour every child there will be gathered around him like some pied piper. To me it is almost like they see a need in him instictively that as Adults people do not see because they cannot get past the judgements they make, the preconceptions and for me that is sad as he truly is a wonderful human being and he is just sick, it is not his fault it is an illness