Are we being forced to go electric?

[classic33]

And if they are more affordable than owning a car, expect people to purchase fewer cars...

Who's saying that automated/self driving cars won't be owned by private individuals.
You seem to feel that they'll be fleet vehicles only.

 

[icowden]

Who's saying that automated/self driving cars won't be owned by private individuals.
You seem to feel that they'll be fleet vehicles only.

Nope. I am saying that I think a large number of people will stop purchasing cars if it is more economic to summon one.

 

[classic33]

Nope. I am saying that I think a large number of people will stop purchasing cars if it is more economic to summon one.

No chance!
Just have a gander at the number of taxi/private hire companies are in your area. They've failed to cut private car ownership. How will any other form of summoning a car, that you don't own, cut private ownership?

This applies to whatever is powering the vehicle.

 

[cougie uk]

No chance!
Just have a gander at the number of taxi/private hire companies are in your area. They've failed to cut private car ownership. How will any other form of summoning a car, that you don't own, cut private ownership?

This applies to whatever is powering the vehicle.

Cars have probably just about peaked in affordability. Look at the price of property now compared to what it was 25 years ago.
My mortgage repayments were less than the price you'd pay for a new car now.
Look at Uber.

Pensioners and us older folks (40 plus?) Are probably ok. Cheaper housing that will be paid off. We can afford cars.

Next generation ? Will they have the spare cash for cars after paying the rent or mortgage ? I'm not so sure.

Times change. There's no way we can keep on adding cars to the roads like we have. Who knows - perhaps we might have a better country for the changes ?

 

[icowden]

Just have a gander at the number of taxi/private hire companies are in your area. They've failed to cut private car ownership. How will any other form of summoning a car, that you don't own, cut private ownership?

Have you seen the price of hiring a taxi? People don't get taxis everywhere because they are expensive. £5.60 to go three miles in an uber - that gives £1.86 per mile. Lets say I drive on average 12,000 miles in a year. To go every where by taxi would cost me £22,400. If I am buying a car on PCP for £300 per month, and buying insurance, that's going to cost me about £4000 per year (not including any maintenance and assuming a VED of 0). So we need to be achieving rates of around 30p per mile to make a self-driving fleet appealing to the masses. If we set the calculation at £400 per month spend, that rises to 44p per mile.

A taxi driver needs to earn a living, and only works a certain number of hours per day. A self-driving BEV doesn't need to earn a living, just make enough money to pay for fuel, cleaning and maintenance, and company profits.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

What would you have done 50 years ago ? I'm afraid you'll always struggle for public transport out in the countryside.

But it is not 50 years ago it is 2022 - I already mentioned that the mobility afforded by cars improved people's lives immensely. The vast majority of people do not want to let that go. And an increasing number of people (self included) want to continue in the same vein albeit more responsibly.

I agree, rural public transport is always going to be pants - so rather than the bloated waffle re integrated rural public transport solutions trotted out by faceless committees and picked up by the media why not accept that cars are a wonderful form of transportation BUT let's go EV or hydrogen but make them smaller, less powerful and more relevant to their use - if you are a 1 person household you most of the time could get by with a little 1 person car imo.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Yep - sorry - apologies - didn't read properly and I entirely agree with you. Whilst you might get clusters of self driving cars in Carlisle and Kendall, you'd have to plan ahead a lot to go off the beaten track , and other public transport just wouldn't be viable.

Cool - thanks.

 

[cougie uk]

But it is not 50 years ago it is 2022 - I already mentioned that the mobility afforded by cars improved people's lives immensely. The vast majority of people do not want to let that go. And an increasing number of people (self included) want to continue iin the same vein more responsibly.

I agree, rural public transport is always going to be pants - so rather than the bloated waffle re integrated rural public transport solutions trotted out by faceless committees and picked up by the media why not accept that cars are a wonderful form of transportation BUT let's go EV or hydrogen but make them smaller, less powerful and more relevant to their use - if you are a 1 person household you most of the time could get by with a little 1 person car imo.

https://news.sky.com/story/bank-of-england-raises-interest-rate-to-0-5-12531683

I'm afraid we are going back in our standards of living - largely thanks to foolish populist governments who just want to be in power without any skills whatsoever. God knows how long it will take to bounce back from this mess.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Cars have probably just about peaked in affordability. Look at the price of property now compared to what it was 25 years ago.
My mortgage repayments were less than the price you'd pay for a new car now.
Look at Uber.

Pensioners and us older folks (40 plus?) Are probably ok. Cheaper housing that will be paid off. We can afford cars.

Next generation ? Will they have the spare cash for cars after paying the rent or mortgage ? I'm not so sure.

Times change. There's no way we can keep on adding cars to the roads like we have. Who knows - perhaps we might have a better country for the changes ?

I see no sign of any slowdown in the post-school, college, uni stampede to buy the latest shiny iPhone, iMac, driving lessons (followed by a car) and travel to far flung places by the younger members of our family and friendship groups - which also span a very wide demographic.

Fair play - I'd be doing the same if I was their age.

Good amusement value too - one younger member of our extended family (26 years old) will happily and unwantedly castigate all and sundry re eating meat, keeping your CH temp too high and how 'oldies' (including his parents who gave him a great start in life) have "stuffed his planet" etc...

... he recently proudly announced that his first ever company car (small petrol BMW) is due shortly - this follows on from sharing his intentions to visit Canada, Cape Town and Australia over the next 15 months or so - and he will! He also lives in a small apartment that looks like a cross between a fashion emporium and the Starship Enterprise's bridge - he is a Graphics Designer and heavy duty gamer.

Enough of this I'm off to turn the CH down by 5C and shiver and not spoil 'his' planet any more than I have to.

😂

 

[SpokeyDokey]

https://news.sky.com/story/bank-of-england-raises-interest-rate-to-0-5-12531683

I'm afraid we are going back in our standards of living - largely thanks to foolish populist governments who just want to be in power without any skills whatsoever. God knows how long it will take to bounce back from this mess.

Sorry, that's too far towards a NACA post for me to comment on.

 

[Milkfloat]

Sorry, that's too far towards a NACA post for me to comment on.

To be fair the whole thread and many others also meet that criteria.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

To be fair the whole thread and many others also meet that criteria.

I thought we'd done well to steer clear tbh.

 

[vickster]

That's why self driving is the future. Need a mahoosive car to go to the airport - done. Need a small car to nip to the shops or pick the kids up from school? No problem. In the meantime, people will buy cars that match their use cases. For the majority of us that's an SUV or family type car.

Why can't most people in sub/urban areas do that on foot or by bike?

I see no sign of any slowdown in the post-school, college, uni stampede to buy the latest shiny iPhone, iMac, driving lessons (followed by a car) and travel to far flung places by the younger members of our family and friendship groups - which also span a very wide demographic.

Fair play - I'd be doing the same if I was their age.

Good amusement value too - one younger member of our extended family (26 years old) will happily and unwantedly castigate all and sundry re eating meat, keeping your CH temp too high and how 'oldies' (including his parents who gave him a great start in life) have "stuffed his planet" etc...

... he recently proudly announced that his first ever company car (small petrol BMW) is due shortly - this follows on from sharing his intentions to visit Canada, Cape Town and Australia over the next 15 months or so - and he will! He also lives in a small apartment that looks like a cross between a fashion emporium and the Starship Enterprise's bridge - he is Graphics Designer and heavy duty gamer.

Enough of this I'm off to turn the CH down by 5C and shiver and not spoil 'his' planet any more than I have to.

😂

Have you pointed out the irony of his behaviour...what did he say?

 

[fossyant]

I see no sign of any slowdown in the post-school, college, uni stampede to buy the latest shiny iPhone, iMac, driving lessons (followed by a car) and travel to far flung places by the younger members of our family and friendship groups - which also span a very wide demographic.

Fair play - I'd be doing the same if I was their age.

Good amusement value too - one younger member of our extended family (26 years old) will happily and unwantedly castigate all and sundry re eating meat, keeping your CH temp too high and how 'oldies' (including his parents who gave him a great start in life) have "stuffed his planet" etc...

... he recently proudly announced that his first ever company car (small petrol BMW) is due shortly - this follows on from sharing his intentions to visit Canada, Cape Town and Australia over the next 15 months or so - and he will! He also lives in a small apartment that looks like a cross between a fashion emporium and the Starship Enterprise's bridge - he is a Graphics Designer and heavy duty gamer.

Enough of this I'm off to turn the CH down by 5C and shiver and not spoil 'his' planet any more than I have to.

😂

Lots of double standards isn't there, especially with the youngsters. God forbid I suggest those that live about 3 miles from work actually cycle or walk. They all drive in and moan they can't find a car parking space (they can't get one on Uni property as they live too close). They also benefit from great public transport where they live.

We need better public transport, not even self driving cars as that's yet another vehicle clogging the roads.

Ideally we'd all have a small EV for the local stuff and going to work, then maybe an ICE vehicle for long distances. Win win here, the ICE vehicle isn't used much and only where it's as efficient as it can be.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Why can't most people in sub/urban areas do that on foot or by bike?

Have you pointed out the irony of his behaviour...what did he say?

Waste of time - arrogant little bugger; won't listen.

Both him and his lady are cut from the same cloth.

She is earning well too (which I love to see in the young) and works very hard in the legal sector but waxes lyrical on all things eco but when I last heard she had booked a 'girly bash' (her words) for a party of 10 for 2 weeks in Dubai. Eco-impact probably offset by the Vegan Dr Martens she bought last year whilst moaning about all her mum's leather shoes.