Are wolf-dogs legal?

[Stephenite]

Haha. I look forward to looking at these later.

 

[Panter]

Talk is cheap!

I came across a wolf* once. And I almost pooed myself. I was living in a scarcely populated part of Norway (where it is just forest for several days walk in all directions) and went out one evening, at about 7pm, for a few hours of cross-country skiing. Well.. it was soon pitch black and began to snow. No moon, either. I went further than i'd intended and soon got lost. So i sat down to have a think about the map i'd seen earlier in the day, hoping to get my bearings. By now, the snow had covered my tracks and was coming down thicker and thicker. I reckoned i'd come to such and such a point and would be able to complete a triangle (and thus get home quicker) by going a certain way.

It didn't go according to plan and, after a while, i was more lost. More lost, in that now i didn't know whether to go left, right, straight on or back. I was exhausted as i'd been skiing for several hours. It was pitch black and snowing. I couldn't see for more than a few yards in any direction. I was tired, hungry and thirsty, and had to get up for work early in the morning. The thrill of the adventure was wearing thin. Hope! There was a very faint orange glow above the trees off to the right. The low cloud must be reflecting the street lamps of Gjøvik and/or Hamar! So i headed roughly towards this faint glow knowing i'd come out of the forest sooner or later. It was just a matter of keeping on going.

Another hour or so went by, and coming up a short incline a heard a 'Woof!' close by off in the darkness ahead and to the right. This is wolf country. Whilst, normally, i'm a sensible chap, and have read that wolves are more afraid of humans than we are of them, and they never attack without a very good reason (like being hungry for example). At this moment I was more of a disoriented, exhausted and weak Mancunian, in a boreal, snow-decked forest in the middle of the night faced with one of nature's most cunning and merciless hunters. I stopped dead. Shivers went up my spine. I shouted a loud 'Oi!' and put my skiing poles together, and held them ready to fend off the beast. Waited.. Nothing.. Waited some more.. Silence.. I couldn't wait around to become dinner anymore. So i moved off slowly keeping my eyes and ears peeled, with my sticks raised. I began to sing "Show me the way to go home" figuring that the Wolf or Wolves would be detered by the sound of a human voice. After a while I picked up speed (if you've seen me skiing 'speed' isn't the right word) imagining the beast/s just on my back. It took me another hour to get back to somewhere i recognised, and i'd sung all the way. I'd been thoroughly exhausted and didn't know how long i could carry on but, after the encounter, i'd found the inner reserves of strength that we all have buried deep away. I'd magically improved my braking and turning too. I arrived at work the next day late.

I can understand the OP's concerns. Fear and danger is a matter of perception. I think he should impress upon the owner his concern, and if the OP doesn't report the dog this time the next person might well do.

* A workmate phoned a hunter friend of theirs and he reckoned it was a roedeer. But to my dying day the story will remain one of man vs. the primeval.

Sod that! wonderful story though

(from the comfort & safety of an armchair)

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

By showing them who is physically stonger? Give them a smack, a bit of a slap around the face?

They are your words not mine, though BDM seems dismissive of the idea of a benevolent leader and favours the Alpha male/dominance idea - which is based on physical superiority.

You seem to have totally misunderstood me, I was talking about dog training so that it at least behaves sensibly, just as you need to teach kids right from wrong etc.

You've pretty much summed it up Arch.

Unfortunately, the macho Alpha brigade believe in pinning a dog to the floor by its throat and the the threat of physical punishment to impose their will e.g. if a dog is pulling on the lead, use a choke chain and give it a good tug to stop it. If it doesn't come back when you call it, beat it (physically hit it with your hands) for having ignored you.
In this day and age, there is no need to resort to such techniques given what is now known about behaviour.

Ngggg, yes, I agree, there is no point hitting a dog as it probably wont associate it with what it has done. WHERE, did I say otherwise??

Oh, and actually, no, we DON'T use a choke chain, never have - we went to dog training run by ex Policemen, so they *knew* what they were doing.

There is a difference between a happy dog that knows its place in the family, and one that is abused and lives in fear.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I don't know that anyone is advocating beating a dog to attain dominance over it. From the little I know (all gleaned from TV wildlife programmes and that that woman in the leather trousers and sports car), it's possible to dominate a dog purely by how you behave towards it, and how you react to it's behaviour. As with humans, training is best done from birth, but can have success in later life...

(having for a while watched both the dog lady, and Supernanny programmes, I'd say dogs and toddlers are very alike, and actually require the same basic training.

That is EXACTLY what I meant - although children and dogs are different, the same basic rules apply!

 

[Stephenite]

The man obviously cares very much about his dog, and doesn't want to be portrayed as an animal-abuser. Fair enough response I'd have thought.

 

[asterix]

Which type of dog? The OP doesn't know what it is and describes it loosely as a Wolf dog.

Wolfdog is a generic term applied to a number of breeds - quite recent breeds not recognised by the KC - which are purposely bred to resemble a wolf - Northern Inuit, Utongogan, Tamascan etc. Typically, they are some variation of cross breeding Siberian Huskies, Malamutes & German Shepherds.

There are some breeds that did use Wolves in the origins of the breed - CSV, Sarloos - these are recognised breeds and are now many generations removed from the wolf.

As for the Alpha male training comment - treat a Sarloos in such a manner (cautious, reserved) and you'll never gain it's trust. Treat a CSV in such a manner, you'll probably come off second best.

Nonsense!

 

[Ravenbait]

I suspect that this is a complete misunderstanding between two people who have very similar feelings about violence towards dogs but have each failed to recognise the invisible sarcasm tags.

Sam

 

[Arch]

I suspect that this is a complete misunderstanding between two people who have very similar feelings about violence towards dogs but have each failed to recognise the invisible sarcasm tags.

Sam

Absolutely.

<mod hat on>

I think people are violently agreeing with each other thanks to a misunderstanding. Let's chill out a bit, eh?

 

[Shaun]

I've read the thread and here are my thoughts:

MichaelM - Post 69 - http://www.cyclechat...ost__p__1743418

Michael - I applaud you defending dogs against such people, but no one in the thread has advocated physically abusing dogs to dominate them; just training the dog to behave properly. Keeping the dog from doing the things that it shouldn't. Addressing potential bad behaviour in the dog before it matures and becomes a possible problem (and perhaps a potential danger to others).

You seem to have misread other people's posts and as a result got would up about dogs being beaten. Re-read the prior posts dispassionately and you will see that no one is seriously suggesting dogs should be beaten as a teaching/training practice.

I am in no doubt you are a dog lover, responsible owner, and that you care about animal welfare. The same is true of Mad Doug Biker and a number of other respondants in the thread.


Mad Doug Biker - Post 96 - http://www.cyclechat...ost__p__1746340

Doug - You've reacted strongly and negatively to MichaelM's suggestion that some people were advocating hitting dogs, and whilst I can understand this, I don't think it is constructive to carry on in this vein when it is quite obvious to me that you are both very responsible and caring dog owners who have the welfare of dogs at heart.

I agree that MichaelM has misunderstood, but demanding a response during the hours of 1am through to 9am is a bit much.


MichaelM - you've misunderstood and wound Doug up.

Doug - you've obviously seen red and it shows in your posts.


Both of you have gone at it tit-for-tat when I suspect - had you met in the park whilst walking your dogs - you would have stood for ages have a good old natter about them. You've certainly both got a passion for dogs and come across as great animal lovers.

I've removed some of the latter posts from view as things said in the heat of the moment don't always reflect our "best" side, and I've wound the thread back to a point where I feel it could move forward from a new understanding that you both feel exactly the same way about dogs.

If you don't believe me, re-read the thread dispassionately and you'll get it - just like I did and a few others .... !!!

Thanks,
Shaun

 

[MichaelM]

You seem to have totally misunderstood me, I was talking about dog training so that it at least behaves sensibly, just as you need to teach kids right from wrong etc.

My apologies. I initially read your post as dismissing the idea of being a benevolent leader in favour of the Alpha "theory" (which is an idea that I strongly disagree with).

 

[swee'pea99]

*wags tail*

 

[MichaelM]

Michael - ...... but no one in the thread has advocated physically abusing dogs to dominate them;.........

I didn't like the direction the thread was taking, maybe I did miss the invisible sarcasm tags - see post 10

....should have smacked him across the snout and he would have backed off.

This comment, coupled to the idea of being the Alpha and the comment regarding "keeping the dog in its place" can be dangerous - there are many people who genuinely believe in this kind of behaviour, which can lead to an escalating scale of violence towards the dog.

Unfortunately, this morning I witnessed someone hitting their dog (and yes I did interrupt him). He's been told that he's been too nice to the dog, and that if the dog doesn't come when it's called, he needs to beat it to teach it a lesson. This mentality needs to be stamped out and I will always speak out against it.

 

[byegad]

We had a nutter in the village who owned three wolf/dog hybrids.


Eventually they were destroyed by the authorities and he was banned from keeping a dog ever again.

 

[MichaelM]

Nonsense!

Which part ?

 

[Shaun]

Unfortunately, this morning I witnessed someone hitting their dog (and yes I did interrupt him). He's been told that he's been too nice to the dog, and that if the dog doesn't come when it's called, he needs to beat it to teach it a lesson. This mentality needs to be stamped out and I will always speak out against it.

It's just about being firm - rather than dominant.

It's balancing act between allowing them some freedom to enjoy themselves, but maintaining the boundaries of good social graces.

It's not something everyone is good at, and I expect a good deal of the hitting is either misguided interpretation of "being in command" or pure frustration at not being able to control the dog.

Maybe the owners need to go to classes whilst the dogs have a run about in the park!!