Are you religious?

[Minotier]

Now here's the thing. I'm a Roman Catholic. To me that is pretty mainstream Christian. Yet I've met plenty of other Christians around the world, and locally, of chiefly a Protestant Evangelical bent, some of them ministers, who have told me, in all seriousness and sincerity, that I am NOT a Christian.

So who decides who is and who isn't, and what is this definition that is so unavoidable?

Best explained in The Life of Brian, are you a follower of the gourd or the shoe?
There are in fact over 40,000 denominations of Christianity and they all believe they are right!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Best explained in The Life of Brian, are you a follower of the gourd or the shoe?

I'm not the Messiah. I'm a very naughty boy!

 

[Rev]

Many of the Western Buddhists used to make me think of the Judean peoples front sketch

 

[Minotier]

I bet Satan is wetting his goat legs laughing at this thread!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm Flying Monkey.

You can't gainsay it, based on the above.

I think you (deliberately) miss the point. And besides, I have no objection to you being Flying Monkey if that's what you really want. It's not like I'm religious about it...

 

[Crankarm]

Many of the Western Buddhists used to make me think of the Judean peoples front sketch

"Judeans' People Front, f**k off! We're the Peoples' Front of Judea. Judeans' Peoples Front ................."

 

[Fab Foodie]

I bet Satan is wetting his goat legs laughing at this thread!

Nah, he's not reading this, he's over at Bike Radar ....

 

[Fab Foodie]

Many of the Western Buddhists used to make me think of the Judean peoples front sketch

My Geordie mate used to say that Buddha was better than Marg on his baps ....

 

[Rev]

There are in fact over 40,000 denominations of Christianity

It would appear (although sources differ) that there are around 800 major religions splitting into about 3500 to 4500 minor (although again sources differ and this is thought to be a conservative estimate. This is without even counting sub-sects, splinters, splitters and of course the cranks!
And some one on this thread claimed to fully understand all religion..........WOW

 

[SpokeyDokey]

It would appear (although sources differ) that there are around 800 major religions splitting into about 3500 to 4500 minor (although again sources differ and this is thought to be a conservative estimate. This is without even counting sub-sects, splinters, splitters and of course the cranks!
And some one on this thread claimed to fully understand all religion..........WOW

How can you be sure that the 800 major religions and 3500-4500 minor religions are not cranks?

As you have implied it is difficult to understand all religion yet you seem to have decided that none of these major/minor religions are cranks as you have categorised them separately.

 

[Rev]

How can you be sure that the 800 major religions and 3500-4500 minor religions are not cranks?

This labelling of cranks or otherwise is not for me to do, I have neither the wit nor the knowledge. I was merely having a little jest with another's words. As I am neither aware of nor conversant with a paltry 800 religions there is not one iota of a hope in me defining which amongst them are cranks and which are not! I am also startlingly unable to make a judgement on which are heretics and which are not!
There are however a few self avowed experts who I am sure would be more than willing to pass judgement.

 

[Fnaar]

Okay, let's take this logically.

1. There are people who exist who call themselves Christian who do not believe in God. Nobody is denying this, right?

2. This being the case, there are two basic responses:

- dismissal of the claim - i.e. they can't be Christian because no true Christian would say such a thing (the logically fallacious 'no true Scotsman' argument), or

- taking the claim seriously at some level.

3. If you assert that they are a priori not Christian whatever they claim to be, you are dismissing a claim of belief and identity, whilst asserting your own right to make such a claim and be taken seriously. This is hypocrisy.

4. If you dismiss their claim by recourse to scripture, some institutionally agreed script, speech-act, etc. you are relying on an already mediated understanding of 'Christianity', which requires that we accept that Christianity must be defined in a certain way - exactly the way in which the person making the claim to be Christian is already rejecting. This might satisfy you if you are fundamentalist or an adherent of one or other organised Christian sect etc. but it does not satisfy logic.

If you think that there can't really be religious people who think this, then I suggest you look up theological noncognitivism. I would also suggest that there are multiple accounts of Jesus Christ that do not see this particular figure in the same way (the story of Jesus in Islam is just one example), and it is possible, if unusual, to separate the question of Jesus's divinity from other religious implications and from his social and political teachings (or what is attributed to him, since the words of Jesus are nowhere recorded directly).

I should point out that I am not saying that this is desirable, good, better than other kinds of Christianity, just that it is possible and people who believe these things exist and call themselves Christian, and thus being a Christian who does not believe in God is not something you can deny except by recourse to the doctrine of a particular institution that would claim in some way to represent or define the idea of 'Christian'.

Yeah, but , they're not PROPER Christians, though, are they, like with crosses and all that stuff

 

[clarion]

This labelling of cranks or otherwise is not for me to do, I have neither the wit nor the knowledge. I was merely having a little jest with another's words. As I am neither aware of nor conversant with a paltry 800 religions there is not one iota of a hope in me defining which amongst them are cranks and which are not! I am also startlingly unable to make a judgement on which are heretics and which are not!
There are however a few self avowed experts who I am sure would be more than willing to pass judgement.

If you have a chosen religion, then you, too, have dismissed all the multiplicity of others. And most people, of any religion, have held it since birth, so long before the age of 8, when a maturing mind would smell bullshit, and be beyonf tooth fairy, Santa Claus, God etc.

How did you, as an infant, fortunate enough (one presumes) to be born into the right religion, manage to sift all the other alternatives (including atheism and agnosticism), and find them wanting? Truly precocious.

 

[Aperitif]

I don't label my cranks. One has a big spiky wheel attached to it and the other has a will of its own.

 

[Rev]

If you have a chosen religion, then you, too, have dismissed all the multiplicity of others. And most people, of any religion, have held it since birth, so long before the age of 8, when a maturing mind would smell bulls***, and be beyonf tooth fairy, Santa Claus, God etc.

How did you, as an infant, fortunate enough (one presumes) to be born into the right religion, manage to sift all the other alternatives (including atheism and agnosticism), and find them wanting? Truly precocious.

Thanks for the question, I have chosen a religion, much like I chose a bicycle. It did what I required it to do, it fit my peculiarities of physiology and psychology. My means of transport (both physically and figuratively) has developed over time and I have learnt it's nuances. I am not averse to other forms of transport nor do I begrudge others their choices based on their physiological and psychological requirements and peculiarities. I do not claim that others can not be transported by their choice of vehicle, neither do I claim my choice is the best for everyone. I can only say at this time with my limited knowledge and experience it does what I need it to do. So I have not dismissed the multiplicity of others, in fact I have spent some small time with other faith communities for protracted periods abroad including a sufi Brotherhood in Northern India, Advaita Vedantists, Franciscan Monks, Theravadin Buddhists and Sikhs in Anadpur Sahibji and Hari mandirji.

I was brought up as a Catholic although with some Quaker leanings and a rather liberal household (for the time and place) As for the sifting through alternatives I have already mentioned some faiths I have wittingly and unwittingly been immersed in during my working travels and personal travels. Not all were for me. I have met angry f**** up Buddhists and wonderful compassionate Muslims, I have met murderous Hindus and saintly agnostics, I have sat with accepting giving atheists and judgemental stingy Christians. I have smelt a lot of bullshit and I have also been truly amazed by people.

But one bit of your question I cannot answer (not will not, I am truly unable) until you define very accurately (and we must come to a rather complex accord) the terms relating to such things as God, Divine, Religion etc etc it is useless of me defining myself as anything, it is also pointless me rejecting anything. As we may be talking of very very different things.



Sorry I must set off for work now any questions will have to wait.