ASL legality

[HLaB]

OT I remember stopping in this ASL and the car behind stopped too, about 5-10secs after with the lights still at red the car overtook and swept through the junction to the left. He obviously was too important to wait that 15-20sec until they went green again

 

[Dan B]

Are you talking to me Dan I'm not sure? I'll assume you are.

Can't remember, but It was PoliceMadAd who introduced the "it's better to stop abruptly" argument, so I'm going to assume I wasn't.

I'm not talking about you or me stopping abruptly

Probably not then :-)

I'm talking about someone behind not paying attention. I know someone who stopped at a set of lights and was hit hard from behind by someone who not only hadn't seen him but hadn't seen the lights.

In the event that we're still talking about ASLs (I'm not sure where the conversation has drifted to now), would it really make any difference (except perhaps to the speed of impact) whether he'd stopped at the first line or the second, if the car behind hadn't noticed him or them or the lights at all?

We're moving away from ASL's though, which in my experience most people ignore around here. I suspect most of them don't even know what they are. In a similar vein to above, someone nearly went into the back of me because I stopped at the ASL instead of the lights. I could see them in the mirror, swearing at me.

Probably different in London, then, where were the same thing to happen they'd be swearing at you for stopping anywhere at all instead of jumping the light so that they could follow you through

 

[Dan B]

Is the amber phase always 3 seconds ...???

According to the internet, at least, yes. Seems a bit silly that it's still three seconds in a 20, in a 30 and in a 60 limit, but believable at least

 

[Crackle]

Fair enough. I must have been in a typing mood earlier today, anxious to set forth my views. I feel normal again now.

 

[captain nemo1701]

I did read somewhere on a police website (I will try and find it later but home net connection dodgy at present - b****y Virgin media) that the transport & design regs state that cyclists should use the cycle lane to enter the ASL on red whereas motorists must stop (HC 178) at the first white line.

I have noted that this issue seems to crop up often. The regs state that while motorists must stop, they do not advise cyclists what to do if there is no feeder lane for the ASL, which covers about 95% of them here in Bristol. The regs do not state that cyclists must stop on red at the first white line in the absence of a cycle lane nor do they forbid you from crossing the line!. The rules mention motorists but as cyclists, we have no engines . The website then went on to state that cyclists are exempt from these rules and I interpret that as being able to cross the line on red.

This is often the best way to enter an ASL, some of which don't have that pathetic little diagonal, dashed line near the kerb or any dashed line at all. If we were to strictly interpret the law, then most ASL's would be useless as you can only enter them on an amber or green light which them might change as you get into the box,thus avoiding entering on red.

I am often cut up in the ASL on York Road, Bristol, by motorcyclists who insist on using the left turn lane to undertake the stationary traffic and enter the ASL on red. There are three mistakes here:

1) Filtering down a left turn lane ignoring the signs and arrows.
2) Entering the ASL on red (contrary to HC 178)
3) Assuming it's empty

I also get annoyed at drivers who insist on slooowly rolling into the ASL, as if it'll make the lights change quicker, when they have light-years to stop!.

Gaz, where are you?. Perhaps you can shed some light on all this?

BTW, anyone got a complaints number for Virgin?. I'm fed up of that website sending you in circles to that damn FAQ page!!!! .

 

[gaz]

I did read somewhere on a police website (I will try and find it later but home net connection dodgy at present - b****y Virgin media) that the transport & design regs state that cyclists should use the cycle lane to enter the ASL on red whereas motorists must stop (HC 178) at the first white line.

I have noted that this issue seems to crop up often. The regs state that while motorists must stop, they do not advise cyclists what to do if there is no feeder lane for the ASL, which covers about 95% of them here in Bristol. The regs do not state that cyclists must stop on red at the first white line in the absence of a cycle lane nor do they forbid you from crossing the line!. The rules mention motorists but as cyclists, we have no engines . The website then went on to state that cyclists are exempt from these rules and I interpret that as being able to cross the line on red.

This is often the best way to enter an ASL, some of which don't have that pathetic little diagonal, dashed line near the kerb or any dashed line at all. If we were to strictly interpret the law, then most ASL's would be useless as you can only enter them on an amber or green light which them might change as you get into the box,thus avoiding entering on red.

I am often cut up in the ASL on York Road, Bristol, by motorcyclists who insist on using the left turn lane to undertake the stationary traffic and enter the ASL on red. There are three mistakes here:

1) Filtering down a left turn lane ignoring the signs and arrows.
2) Entering the ASL on red (contrary to HC 178)
3) Assuming it's empty

I also get annoyed at drivers who insist on slooowly rolling into the ASL, as if it'll make the lights change quicker, when they have light-years to stop!.

Gaz, where are you?. Perhaps you can shed some light on all this?

BTW, anyone got a complaints number for Virgin?. I'm fed up of that website sending you in circles to that damn FAQ page!!!! .

I don't think what you say about cyclists being allowed over the stop line is correct. Every piece of legislation I can see regarding red lights states vehicle and not motor vehicle.

 

[martint235]

Is the amber phase always 3 seconds ...??? I've never really thought about it - I will have to look next time.

I don't mind a car that stops over the line encroaching on the box if they needed the space to stop smoothly. I object to those who cross into the box even though they can see it is red. And if a car is waiting to turn right they could easily end up in the ASL box whilst waiting. There is a turn nearby my friends house which you can't turn off the A38 until the light changes red for on-coming traffic - it is easy to get caught in the box there. As it is the access for the sports centre there is usually a queue of traffic waiting to turn right which starts waiting infront of the ASL waiting for the gap. (The timing of the lights seems to be set so that two cars can turn after the oncoming traffic light goes red before the side road goes green).

Cars shouldn't really be in the box while waiting to turn right though, the same as they shouldn't be on a pedestrian crossing whilst in a traffic queue.

I've seen similar junctions to the one you're talking about and it's annoying. I accept cars have to wait for red to turn right but I'd guess you can only get two cars through in that space. Everyone else should really be behind the stop line.