ASL Question

[jonny jeez]

It's not bizarre at all. .

Its bizarre that they create an ASL that no-one is "legally" allowed to get into? perhaps they just ran out of green paint.

 

[very-near]

Technically yes. but the car should not "technically" be in the ASL either, so both of you would just argue the same point, that the lights changed as you were crossing in heavy, slow traffic, so you stopped where you were.

I'd always try to get in front of any hazard rather than sit behind it amongst other hazards, if this means "creeping" across the lights a little, then so be it (at least I'm in a safe spot)

Technically, as a car can legally be waiting in an ASL if they were in a line of traffic and the lights turn to red. You are not legally permitted to cross either solid line of the ASL or the one behind it if the lights are showing red.

 

[very-near]

There are two problems:

From the back of the queue, you can't always see if the ASL box is clear. You can't know until you arrive at the front - where do you go if it isn't? There may not be a bike-sized gap you can occupy unless you cross the white stop line (maybe not even then).

From the back of the queue, you can't always see if there is an ASL.

I've been caught out by this one. You find that five or six junctions in an unfamiliar town have ASLs, so at the seventh one you filter to the front of the queue, only to find that there is no ASL at that particular junction... What now?

You are supposed to proceed at a pace which you can stop in without infringing the applicable laws.

If you don't and have an accident, then the liability could lie with you.

 

[CotterPin]

Technically yes. but the car should not "technically" be in the ASL either, so both of you would just argue the same point, that the lights changed as you were crossing in heavy, slow traffic, so you stopped where you were.

I'd always try to get in front of any hazard rather than sit behind it amongst other hazards, if this means "creeping" across the lights a little, then so be it (at least I'm in a safe spot)

That's an interesting point. I would be inclined to stay behind a vehicle that might represent a hazard to me. If the driver has been behaving in an erratic manner earlier then my inclination is to let him get ahead of me so he doesn't have to try the inevitable dodgy overtake on me.

 

[Amanda P]

You are supposed to proceed at a pace which you can stop in without infringing the applicable laws.

If you don't and have an accident, then the liability could lie with you.

Eh?

It's not about speed. It's about what happens when you arrive at an ASL, or a junction where you reasonably expected there to be an ASL, and either there isn't one, or it's occupied.

You're then in a tricky position (literally). If you wait in the gutter, or on the right of the queueing traffic, you're in a dangerous place. There may not be a pavement or any other space to go to - but that doesn't stop highway engineers building junctions like this, and it doesn't seem to encourage anyone actually to police abuse of ASLs.

 

[marinyork]

Its bizarre that they create an ASL that no-one is "legally" allowed to get into? perhaps they just ran out of green paint.

No. There are often arguments in planning about ASLs. The DfT has its own guidelines and councils tend to have their own opinions. Sometimes cycling organisations even ask for cycle lanes to be removed . In anycase you are assuming that councils don't make mistakes on road markings and signs, it is not unheard of, you are just focusing on one area.

 

[John the Monkey]

That's an interesting point. I would be inclined to stay behind a vehicle that might represent a hazard to me.

Very true.

I don't want an impatient driver behind me if I can avoid having them there, personally.

 

[Graham]

I usually get in front of the car at the front fo the queue, I reckon its more dangerous to be alongside someone as you might get left-hooked. Once I'm clear of the junction, I'll pull over to the left to let them by. I have given up giving people the hard stare - they just look at you blankly.

 

[gaz]

Cars in ASL? all i see is valentino rossi with a belly at every asl.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

One idiot yesterday pulled into the ASL next to me while I was waiting for the lights to change (right alongside), then stuck his indicator on (i.e. to turn left presumably over/through me).

After a lot of staring at him eventually gained his attention (I was in night vision jacket with the rear Smart light on flashing; not quite sure how he managed to ignore me so long in the first place ); then he sort of moved over to the right and gave me some more space, and let me into the junction first.

I think I'll try the fitting sideways in front next time - although in some cases I'd have to be exactly following the front line so things could get interesting....

 

[HJ]

I read the other day that....technically, there are situations that make it illegal for a cyclist to be in the ASL!!

Bizarre as it sounds, if the feeder lane is not painted in, then you are not "legally" allowed to cross the solid white line into the ASL

Another piece of brilliant road planning by the highways authority.

I also read that any copper trying to assert this rule would be considered "extreme" and possibly have a very short career

That is not actually true, cyclist are allowed to cross the first stop line but must stop at the Advanced Stop Line when the light is at red. Highway Code Rule 178 clearly states:

Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

If a Motor Vehicle crosses the first stop line when the light is at red, the driver has commited an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 sect 36 and can get three points on their licence. Sadly ignorance of the law seems to be acceptable for drivers and Police Officers...

 

[manalog]

There are two problems:

From the back of the queue, you can't always see if the ASL box is clear. You can't know until you arrive at the front - where do you go if it isn't? There may not be a bike-sized gap you can occupy unless you cross the white stop line (maybe not even then).

From the back of the queue, you can't always see if there is an ASL.

I've been caught out by this one. You find that five or six junctions in an unfamiliar town have ASLs, so at the seventh one you filter to the front of the queue, only to find that there is no ASL at that particular junction... What now?

This exactly the situation I am finding myself in, bumper to bumper no ASL or vehicles parked on it and I can't find a slot behind another car. Or if there is a Bendy bus occupying the ASL I can't exactly reverse and go behind it and waiting in the gutter side by side I think is suicide.

 

[HJ]

This is what I do, go in front of the car encroaching the ASL but is it legal to go beyond the 2nd Solid White line of the ASL?

If the light is red then you as a cyclist MUST stop at the Advanced Stop Line (the 2nd Solid White line). See Highway Code Rule 178...

 

[Origamist]

We discussed the legal ASL technicalities last year:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=21655&highlight=advanced

 

[manalog]

If the light is red then you as a cyclist MUST stop at the Advanced Stop Line (the 2nd Solid White line). See Highway Code Rule 178...

This is interesting, so those people who encroached the ASL is putting our lives at risks as in some cases we have nowhere to go but if we were to cross the 2nd solid line we are breaking the law? And could possibly receive a fine and 3 points?