ATTENTION London cyclists. Protest ride again on 16th of july

[Jezston]

I'm torn on this.

I think more should be done, but I don't like that LCC are pushing exclusively for segregation. I don't like the article saying "This morning another Londoner died under the wheels of a lorry in a street that provides no dedicated space for cycling." suggesting that it wouldn't have happened if there was a cycle lane.

But there isn't room for a 'dedicated space for cycling' on every single one of London's road, and then we have issues of crap 'dedicated spaces', being expected to exclusively use our 'dedicated spaces' and not being able to do things like turning right.

Apparently LCC had the 'vehicular cycling' vs segregation debate and segregation won, vehicular cycling being told to f-off - no middle ground.

If this is truly the case, I'm not sure I want to support them.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I'm torn on this.

I think more should be done, but I don't like that LCC are pushing exclusively for segregation. I don't like the article saying "This morning another Londoner died under the wheels of a lorry in a street that provides no dedicated space for cycling." suggesting that it wouldn't have happened if there was a cycle lane.

But there isn't room for a 'dedicated space for cycling' on every single one of London's road, and then we have issues of crap 'dedicated spaces', being expected to exclusively use our 'dedicated spaces' and not being able to do things like turning right.

Apparently LCC had the 'vehicular cycling' vs segregation debate and segregation won, vehicular cycling being told to f-off - no middle ground.

If this is truly the case, I'm not sure I want to support them.

It's a hard choice. If the thinking is that more segregation leads to more cyclists and thereby a greater awareness about cyclists and experience of cycling itself, then it's only the ''You don't pay road tax'' crew to worry about. It also demands a genuine investment in cycling when the cyclesuperhighways have gone the way of paint-job publicity juxtaposed with an overriding priority for traffic flow.

 

[ManiaMuse]

I'm all for segregation if it means there is enough space to space to overtake slower cyclists and the routes get priority over side streets/bus stops/street furniture/are actually safe to use etc.

Unfortunately I don't think this will happen because the powers to be will have to take too much space from motorists. On the other hand, I'm probably not the target audience for segregation.

I'd rather no infrastructure than poorly planned/executed infrastructure though.

 

[veloevol]

I'm torn on this.

I think more should be done, but I don't like that LCC are pushing exclusively for segregation. I don't like the article saying "This morning another Londoner died under the wheels of a lorry in a street that provides no dedicated space for cycling." suggesting that it wouldn't have happened if there was a cycle lane.

But there isn't room for a 'dedicated space for cycling' on every single one of London's road, and then we have issues of crap 'dedicated spaces', being expected to exclusively use our 'dedicated spaces' and not being able to do things like turning right.

Apparently LCC had the 'vehicular cycling' vs segregation debate and segregation won, vehicular cycling being told to f-off - no middle ground.

If this is truly the case, I'm not sure I want to support them.

Stop fretting, LCC needs a coherent campaign and Going Dutch is the best strategy IMO.

We also need HSE coverage of our roads and strict liability if we are going to see an increased take up of pedal power for all.

Vehicular cycling isn't going away any time soon.

 

[Mile195]

Bulls***.

I'm sorry but that is not a convincing argument for the proactive bike mad mayor you seem to recognise.

He and his cronies have sped up the traffic, stacked cars and HGVs at junctions and made cycling a sometimes terrifying prospect for some Londoners.

Just watch he is setting Andrew up for a fall, blue paint is about as good as it gets right now.

If only the UAE were mad about cycling.

I take your points, but cycling was always a terrifying prospect for most people. Indeed traffic flow has improved, and with it increased speed. But personally, I find that as a result, there are fewer frustrated drivers making dashes before lights go red, and shoehorning their vehicles into gaps they don't really fit through. As a result, they seem to spend more time looking out for other things, including pedestrians and cyclists. this is just personal experience though. Everybody will have a different take on it, depending what areas you ride in.

I live in south-east london where traffic tends to be better anyway. Maybe things have got worse on the north side and elsewhere, hence our differing points of view.

 

[veloevol]

I take your points, but cycling was always a terrifying prospect for most people. Indeed traffic flow has improved, and with it increased speed. But personally, I find that as a result, there are fewer frustrated drivers making dashes before lights go red, and shoehorning their vehicles into gaps they don't really fit through. As a result, they seem to spend more time looking out for other things, including pedestrians and cyclists. this is just personal experience though. Everybody will have a different take on it, depending what areas you ride in.

I live in south-east london where traffic tends to be better anyway. Maybe things have got worse on the north side and elsewhere, hence our differing points of view.

Hey neighbour! I agree there is more general awareness from vehicles than I recall when cycling in London say 10 years ago but the current rate of HGV deaths is plainly unacceptable. Actually zero would be acceptable.

I don't agree better drivers reside in SE London though, not from my experience of living there the past 4 years.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Anyhow, the confirmed route is here - http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-orga...on-street-without-dedicated-space-for-cycling

 

[Recycle]

I'll be lying down.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

[QUOTE 2550531, member: 1314"]I'll be in my CC shirt![/quote]
I'll keep an eye out for you - I've seen your fizzog in posts. Red top, green tourer. Unless I'm really lazy and take the carbon one via the fan park.

 

[Mile195]

Hey neighbour! I agree there is more general awareness from vehicles than I recall when cycling in London say 10 years ago but the current rate of HGV deaths is plainly unacceptable. Actually zero would be acceptable.

I don't agree better drivers reside in SE London though, not from my experience of living there the past 4 years.

I suppose it's all quite subjective really - we all find our experiences on the road never quite match that of the next man. One thing is certain though - as you say the number of accidents involving HGV's generally IS somewhat disproportionate. I read that they're pushing for better wing mirror clusters to be made mandatory, as well as those talking-indicators that I hear on alot of lorries now.

Either way, I seem to have inadvertantly hijacked this thread with another topic, so I'm going to shut the hell up now and get on with some work!

 

[Frood42]

Segregated cycling is only a small part of what needs to be done to make cycling better (and would not be top of my list).

Personally I would change road/traffic priorities to having vunerable road users coming first, campaigns to increase awareness of vunerable road users (small adverts in the Metro do not count in my mind) and increase penalties to motorised traffic.

I would also remove the dinosaurs in TFL and other traffic organisations who take a 'car' first approach.

I have problems with seperating bikes completely from cars on the road, in my mind it increases the whole "get in the cycle lane" mentality, and could potentially erode away cyclists rights on the road, I do not want to be in a position where I have to use crappy infrastructure when there is a perfectly good road that can be used.

What we really need is a crack down of the selfish gits who cannot learn to share the road.
Remove their licenses and force them to take and pass an advanced course before the license can be returned.

Personally I would also like to see a mandatory re-test every 10 years minimum.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

@User1314 Nice to meet you today

On tonight's ride, a man came up to me and said, ''You were on Friday's ride?'' I said yes. ''I got a picture of you - I'll send it to you'' And he did. Thank you Andrea!

 

[Recycle]

No chanting like there was on Friday but a spontaneous roar after the minutes silence that was quite spectacular.

At least twice as many cyclists at this event. Quite a turnout considering the short notice. I thought I was the only bent in the village when I heard "snap" and my bike seemed to have cloned itself. Not only another speedmachine of the same colour, but the rider had cloned my age and accent as well. Strange.

 

[ianrauk]

Good amount of cyclists for such a short time to be organised.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I wonder if, for a few short sweet moments, the prisoners in their tin boxes felt a little intimidated by the thousand or so bikes milling around them.

Now reverse the scenario and see how cyclists all over the country feel for the other 364 days and 23 hours of the year......