Bad English.

[Ravenbait]

To be fair, FM, I'm not arguing in favour of my view being right. I am presenting my reasons for being irritated by what I perceive occasionally as laxity in language -- in fact, I've even stated specifically that my brain works in an abnormal fashion with regards to words, so I don't see why you should think that I'm claiming some form of linguistic high ground, as you seem to have inferred I'm doing.

I'm also made angry by films being shown in 3D at cinemas for longer than they show the 2D version. I can't see 3D. So this makes me cross. The vast majority of people couldn't give a rat's bottom.

The point I've unsuccessfully been trying to make is that I see meanings embedded in words. I'd say literally but it's not -- it's a shape thing. It's not about me being a writer or anything else. It's about me having a strangely wired brain of which I make use as a writer.

So, you know, nyer. I'm having a whinge. You have your own whinge, this one's mine and I shall have it if I like.

Sam

 

[Angelfishsolo]

strictly[/i], 'kit-bag' means 'bag-bag', and I suppose that in some sense you'd be right. Whether anybody else would think that such an argument was in any sense useful or in any way enlightening would be a whole different question.

My own take on it is to be suspicious when people start putting words like strictly and literally in italics in discussions such as this, and say that as far as I'm concerned, anyone who says 'kit-bag' means 'bag-bag' is a twit. We all know what kit-bag means: it means the bag you put your footie stuff in. Insisting otherwise on historical, etymological or any other grounds is just pissing down your own leg: you get a nice warm feeling, but with any luck no-one else notices, or pays any attention.

None of which means you should give up on 'literally' - that battle has not yet been lost. Misuse of such important words should be punished with ridicule, derision and, if necessary, burning coals. 'Almost unique' and variants thereof is a bugbear of mine, (along with the '110%' beloved of Apprentice contestants) and anyone who uses such terms in my presence will collect a sharp clip round the ear, so long as I draw breath.

Bun, anyone?

The ultimate version of that is The Bible - As Bible is literally translated as "The book"

 

[benb]

That is a really good example of what I am talking about...

Yes, I know.

 

[swee'pea99]

The ultimate version of that is The Bible - As Bible is literally translated as "The book"

From QI:

"River Axe, the River Esk, the River Exe, the Rive Uz, the River Tyne, the River Humber . . . all mean "River River". But the "Paraguay River" means "River River River".

Clive
Yeah.

Stephen
Para-Guay River. Er, "Genesee River" is "Big River River River". I sound like a frog. Erm . . . Lake Niassa means . . . ? Lake--

John
"Lake Lake".

Stephen
"Lake Lake". Exactly.

John
Yeah.

Stephen
As does Lake Dahl, in India. Means "Lake Lake". The Sahara Desert means the . . . ?

Have a guess!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

The point I've unsuccessfully been trying to make is that I see meanings embedded in words. I'd say literally but it's not -- it's a shape thing. It's not about me being a writer or anything else. It's about me having a strangely wired brain of which I make use as a writer.

Yeah, I know that. But, there is a thin line between 'this is how I see things' and 'this is how things should be'. I guess I'm just kicking your toes when they touch the line!

 

[Mr Phoebus]

[QUOTE 1444501"]
What does this word mean?..

[/quote]

They're flats for ladies of the night.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Ladies of the twilight, more like.

 

[Norm]

The point I've unsuccessfully been trying to make is that I see meanings embedded in words. I'd say literally but it's not -- it's a shape thing. It's not about me being a writer or anything else. It's about me having a strangely wired brain of which I make use as a writer.

I don't think you've been unsuccessful, RB, I think that you have described your wiring very well.

I think the problem, if there is one, is that most of us are just used to seeing, reading, feeling and imagining stuff the way that we see, read, feel and imagine it.

I've been interested in synaesthesia since I first heard about it about... oh, it must be 12 years ago now. Actually, it goes back even further than that, after I had a (short and mild) period of not being quite myself, I started reading more about how wiring can go awry either temporarily or permanently, but I remember a piece on Radio 4 in the late 1990s which was about synaesthesia, and it fascinated me - particularly in the way that some relate colours to words and people.

However, whilst I may know more than most people, I still don't actually understand what it would mean to have synaesthesia. I hear the number 4 and I can see the number itself in my head. Depending on what I've been doing, I might see four footballs or four children or four pegs or maybe a square but the idea that someone might hear the number four as green or a taste of aniseed or whatever, I read about it, I recognise that it happens but I don't understand it.

I can see a red 58 in a sea of green dots, because I'm not colour-blind and I don't understand how others cannot see it.

Thanks, RB, for taking the time to explain it.

 

[Arch]

[quote name='swee'pea99' timestamp='1310737411' post='1752131']
From QI:

"River Axe, the River Esk, the River Exe, the Rive Uz, the River Tyne, the River Humber . . . all mean "River River". But the "Paraguay River" means "River River River".

Clive
Yeah.

Stephen
Para-Guay River. Er, "Genesee River" is "Big River River River". I sound like a frog. Erm . . . Lake Niassa means . . . ? Lake--

John
"Lake Lake".

Stephen
"Lake Lake". Exactly.

John
Yeah.

Stephen
As does Lake Dahl, in India. Means "Lake Lake". The Sahara Desert means the . . . ?

Have a guess!


[/quote]

I can't remember which it is, but there's a village, in Leicestershire I think, which is called something-on-the-hill, and the 'something' translates as two words for hill, so it's hill hill on the hill....

 

[swee'pea99]

Indeed...

"There is a small hill in Cumbria called Torpenhow. Or "TOP-pen-hur", it's sometimes pronounced, but there you see it. Torpenhow. And I want to know why it's not only quite interesting, but it's twice as interesting as Mount Fujiyama

.........

Stephen
"Tor"--

Clive
"Tor" is a hill--

Stephen
Yes--

John
"Pen" is--

Clive
So is "pen"; so is "how". It's three hills.

Stephen
So, "Tor-pen-how Hill", which I asked you about--

--is four hills.

 

[Orange]

I get annoyed, probably more than most, by poor spelling - however the following rings true:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

Doesn't excuse it though.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I get annoyed, probably more than most, by poor spelling - however the following rings true:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

Doesn't excuse it though.

You appear to have left out an apostrophe in the second word. Spoply....

 

[yello]

When I speak French, I have no feeling for what I am saying. The words are like magic words, sometimes they work and I'm understood. It's a massive relief because I have no idea, no confidence, in the words. Confidence from having developed a personal relationship, a kind of intimacy, with the words I use. It'll come with time and experience.

In English, I feel the words I use. Does this lead to a confidence trick? Do I falsely believe I am being understood? I can never really know for sure because I cannot be both speaker and hearer (or writer and reader).

People hear (and read) what they want to. I don't mean that harshly, it's not a wilful misunderstanding (not always anyway!) but bound to happen. People have their own relationships with words. It's a wonder that we ever understand each other! We rely on agreed, or dictionary, definitions to ensure there is a least a core of understanding.

I say 'chair'. What's the mental image you have? I'll wager it's different to the one I have but the two are hopefully close enough for us both to share the nub. There's agreement on the core, a typical chair if you like, but there's a great deal of fuzzy peripheral meaning that could lead to misunderstanding.

The beauty of creative prose is that it can explore and stretch the outer edges of meanings, playfully overlap meanings and blend the tastes and sensations that people have in their personal vocabularies. Vive la différence eh?

 

[benb]

I get annoyed, probably more than most, by poor spelling - however the following rings true:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

Doesn't excuse it though.

Yes, but the only reason we can understand that is precisely because we are so familiar with the correct spelling.

 

[Mr Phoebus]

ebay, Ebay, e-bay and E-bay. Doh!




They're all wrong. It's eBay.