Bank of mum and dad

[User482]

Why would a student from a lower income family need to borrow more? Their living costs are the same.
Oh, right, you are making the huge assumption that the more well off parents are giving their kids money.
Did you not read my post? We are in the "better off" category, but we have zip all to give the kids. While plenty of "lower" earners have disposable cash.
If everyone was given the same amount of loan and parents weren't made to feel financially responsible for them it would be a much fairer starting point.

That sounds like a choice.

 

[Sandra6]

That sounds like a choice.

Well, obviously, over the years we have made choices - some poor ones - which have led to our current financial situation. Whilst others have made better choices - or been luckier - and have disposable income.
The point I'm making is that it is wrong to assume that a person on a higher income has more money left over after meeting their monthly committments and the children shouldn't be penalised as a result.
Two students set off to uni at the same time, one had parents earning £40kplus and one had parents earning £20k. The higher earners have a bigger mortgage,and no savings, the lower earners have no mortgage and a nice little sum in the bank. The "poorer" child has £25 a week more to live on than the "richer" child and gets regular "pocket money" from grandaprents. How is that fair? Treat them all the same , irrespective of parental income .
I'll be perfectly honest, even if we had a spare £6k a year , I wouldn't be handing it over to either of the children who are studying, I'd be spending it on a holiday.

 

[User482]

Well, obviously, over the years we have made choices - some poor ones - which have led to our current financial situation. Whilst others have made better choices - or been luckier - and have disposable income.
The point I'm making is that it is wrong to assume that a person on a higher income has more money left over after meeting their monthly committments and the children shouldn't be penalised as a result.
Two students set off to uni at the same time, one had parents earning £40kplus and one had parents earning £20k. The higher earners have a bigger mortgage,and no savings, the lower earners have no mortgage and a nice little sum in the bank. The "poorer" child has £25 a week more to live on than the "richer" child and gets regular "pocket money" from grandaprents. How is that fair? Treat them all the same , irrespective of parental income .
I'll be perfectly honest, even if we had a spare £6k a year , I wouldn't be handing it over to either of the children who are studying, I'd be spending it on a holiday.

I've highlighted the relevant bits. It's not for me to tell you how to spend your money, but perhaps it's not for you to complain about unfairness.

 

[Crackle]

20 odd years ago before I even had children but with the potential in mind, we started a saving/investment plan. A small percentage of total outgoings. We probably could have managed it better and seen it grow more but grow it has and it's now funding my two through uni. Sadly, thanks to the bastard scumbag Lib Dem traitorous shites, they will still come out with substantial debts despite that planning. But it doesn't really take a genius to work out, that if you have children, there will be expenses, important ones which may decide their future and that you better be prepared for it. Few people have disposable income no matter how much they earn and teaching your children to be careful with money when you haven't, is called irony.

 

[Jody]

Houses in our area have gone up approximately 4 fold in the last 15 years. My wages haven't even doubled. If you aaren't on the housing ladder you are quickly being priced out of it.

 

[Julia9054]

Why would a student from a lower income family need to borrow more? Their living costs are the same.
Oh, right, you are making the huge assumption that the more well off parents are giving their kids money.
Did you not read my post? We are in the "better off" category, but we have zip all to give the kids. While plenty of "lower" earners have disposable cash.
If everyone was given the same amount of loan and parents weren't made to feel financially responsible for them it would be a much fairer starting point.

I read your post correctly. A child whose parents income is above the threshold is eligible to borrow the minimum loan. If they are living away from home, this does not quite cover their rent. It is expected that the rest of their income is made up from parental contribution. A child from a low income family can borrow more as it is expected that their parents are not able to contribute. Hence more debt.
Where the threshold for this is set and how parental income is calculated is another question. If your income is above the threshold, you have choices about how you allocate that income.

 

[Sandra6]

I've highlighted the relevant bits. It's not for me to tell you how to spend your money, but perhaps it's not for you to complain about unfairness.

Some people will have opportunities to save, others will not. Regardless of how careful or careless they are with their money. Such is life. But the children of those people shouldn't be penalised when they are trying to make their own way.
I think I've made it clear that I don't believe in the bank of mum and dad, and my children are expected to stand on their own two feet and I wish more people felt that way because it would level the playing field.

 

[User482]

Some people will have opportunities to save, others will not. Regardless of how careful or careless they are with their money. Such is life. But the children of those people shouldn't be penalised when they are trying to make their own way.
I think I've made it clear that I don't believe in the bank of mum and dad, and my children are expected to stand on their own two feet and I wish more people felt that way because it would level the playing field.

Yes, you've made it very clear. Equally, I've made it very clear that you are making a choice.

I'm reminded of conversations I have with friends, who upon relocating from the city to the country, are shocked to learn that commuting takes time.

 

[Sandra6]

I read your post correctly. A child whose parents income is above the threshold is eligible to borrow the minimum loan. If they are living away from home, this does not quite cover their rent. It is expected that the rest of their income is made up from parental contribution. A child from a low income family can borrow more as it is expected that their parents are not able to contribute. Hence more debt.
Where the threshold for this is set and how parental income is calculated is another question. If your income is above the threshold, you have choices about how you allocate that income.

Beyond paying bills, mortgage and feeding the people I have to, I don't have much choice about how to spend my income at the moment. I certainly don't have the 6k the government thinks I have.
And just because you can borrow more, doesn't mean you have to. The basic amount is enough to cover rent and food -if you're careful. My daughter is incapable of being careful enough so she has to work, my son is managing just fine but he buys less drink and make up!
I stil believe all students should have the potential to borrow the same amount, should they wish to.
And this ties in exactly with the need for grown up children to be financially independent from their parents.

 

[Julia9054]

My son's rent (for next year) is £3450 a year - cheap for student accommodation in Manchester. He can borrow the minimum loan of £3800 a year. Fairly difficult for him to feed himself and pay bills on the £7 a week he has left.
Currently - like most first years - he is in halls. The fees are £5500 for the year.
I agree that students should be able to borrow the same amount and until very recently that was the case. Students from low income families topped the loan amount up with grants. Everybody, potentially, left with the same level of debt.

 

[Sandra6]

Yes, you've made it very clear. Equally, I've made it very clear that you are making a choice.

I'm reminded of conversations I have with friends, who upon relocating from the city to the country, are shocked to learn that commuting takes time.

You're wide of the mark if you are implying I'm clueless to the cost of raising a family but you are right in that I made a choice.
I chose to not pursue a career and to manage on a shoestring so that I could stay at home and raise my children because it was important to us as a family.
The result of that choice is that we still have 25 years of mortgage payments to make and I'm stuck in a part time minimum wage job with a substantial amount of debt to chisel away at.
And I'd make that choice every time.

 

[Sandra6]

My son's rent (for next year) is £3450 a year - cheap for student accommodation in Manchester. He can borrow the minimum loan of £3800 a year. Fairly difficult for him to feed himself and pay bills on the £7 a week he has left.
Currently - like most first years - he is in halls. The fees are £5500 for the year.
I agree that students should be able to borrow the same amount and until very recently that was the case. Students from low income families topped the loan amount up with grants. Everybody, potentially, left with the same level of debt.

You must earn more than us, as my kids get a bit more than that.
See, it really is unfair isn't it?!

 

[Julia9054]

A quick look at the rules show that a household income of 25k means a student can apply for the maximum loan of £8400. A household income of around 60k or above means a student gets the minimum loan (not means tested). There is a sliding scale between these. If this is the system, the income amounts seem about right to me.
When i was a student, back in the days of grants, some got a full grant, some got nothing, most got something in between - all dependent on parental income. The difference was that the level of debt you started your working life with was entirely dependant on how careful you were with your money, not on how poor you were to start with.

 

[Julia9054]

You must earn more than us, as my kids get a bit more than that.
See, it really is unfair isn't it?!

Which is entirely my point. Your kids should not have to start their working life with more debt than mine just because of the difference in our incomes

 

[Sandra6]

Touche
Realistically at most they'll be paying back £50- 100 a month. I don't think it's the millstone round their necks some do.
That said, the system sucks, and it needs changing.