BBC South - Incident in Hove

[Tynan]

I imagine the violence will have ocurred as a result of any conversation following any incident of bad dricing

So hardly gratuitious, there's such a thing as provocation

 

[GrumpyGregry]

only provocation in my book that justifies punching someone's lights out is their hitting me first. Sticks and stones and all that.

Having to swerve because some bell end opens their door doesn't even some close. No matter what they might say about me, my wife my mother or the baby Jesus afterwards.

Superifically I'd ask what the heck is any halfway compentant cyclist doing passing parked cars that close anyway. Asking to be offed by a tw@t, ride defensively for pities sake..

 

[661-Pete]

I'd go further than Greg, and say, there's no excuse whatever for punching anyone, for any reason, unless you're a trained boxer in the ring with another boxer! Even if the other person lashes out first. If you have the ability to physically restrain him without hitting him, well and good.

Having said that, most of us I'm sure will have been on the receiving end of a punch to the face at some time in our lives (probably as a kid) and survived the experience. Indeed, maybe the real injury to Mr Magdi arose from his hitting his head on the ground, not from the blow of the fist. But that doesn't make it any less a serious assault. One can only hope that justice is served commensurate with the offence committed.

But .... the story still speaks of road rage, rather than general thuggery. This opens the possibility that we have here a normally law-abiding person who simply 'lost it' in a moment of madness, with terrible consequences. My guess is, he may be absolutely gutted by realisation of what he has done, and feel the most intense remorse. But of course I do not know if this is so. If it does turn out that way, how will the brigade of 'commenters' of the 'grind all cyclists into the dirt' persuasion, see it?

And the fact that the perpetrator appears to have been a serious, dedicated cyclist rather than what we rudely call a "POB", makes it worse for us cyclists I suppose, though it makes not a jot of difference to the friends and relatives of Mr Magdi. They just want him to recover. Remember that.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

no excuse, morally, perhaps. But the right to use reasonable force used in self defence is well established in common law surely?

iirc, in law, a punch thrower could get their retaliation in first if they thought they were about to be punched themselves and could argue reasonable force.

 

[downfader]

I dont know if the guy's head hit the deck (obviously I wasnt there) but there are a number of causes to such an injury without having your head hit the ground.

Blood vessels can burst, there is a danger of impact to the temple in just the right spot doing this I think (a Brit actress died on a skiing trip in such a way iirc).

Pituitary tumours (usually shown in advance with extra growth hormones being produced) can also cause problems if such a punch is thrown.

You just dont know who you're hitting and how it can affect them.

 

[661-Pete]

I dont know if the guy's head hit the deck (obviously I wasnt there) but there are a number of causes to such an injury without having your head hit the ground.

Blood vessels can burst, there is a danger of impact to the temple in just the right spot doing this I think (a Brit actress died on a skiing trip in such a way iirc).

Pituitary tumours (usually shown in advance with extra growth hormones being produced) can also cause problems if such a punch is thrown.

You just dont know who you're hitting and how it can affect them.

The first Argus article says

...punched the man in the head, knocking him to the ground.

but it doesn't specifically say he hit his head on the ground. But you're right, 99 out of 100 blows to the head will do no permanent damage, but the remaining one... The actress who died was Natasha Richardson. And remember also Ian Tomlinson...

 

[Longboarder]

My feeling is that Tony Magdi opened his door without looking in his mirror like we have all done at some time. The cyclist swerved but apparently wasn't hit. The other cyclist probably gave Mr Magdi some serious verbal and knowing Mr Magdi (Which I do) he would have asked him not to swear at him. I guess this individual is carrying around some serious baggage (carrying it on a bike that morning) and somehow thought it acceptable to use violence against another person to get his point across.
Now the whole community of West Hove are having to deal with the possible death of one of the cornerstones of that community.
Tony is a well liked character, running a fruit and veg shop, you go in for some spuds and he would give you a bag of free bananas, he would give your kids an apple, and his apples were always the best.
I really hope the man responsible for this attrocity gets the help he needs to rejoin the civilised human race.
As for your 'there's such a thing as provocation' I would say to you that there is also such a thing as 'perspective' and you are severely lacking some in your comments.
A man is hanging onto his life by a thread here.

I imagine the violence will have ocurred as a result of any conversation following any incident of bad dricing

So hardly gratuitious, there's such a thing as provocation

 

[szygy]

As above says what kind of conversation deserves violence as an answer?
I hope they throw the book at the guy, imagine what this guy will be like with a car.
Also I always leave enough space for a car door to open when moving past cars, not to do so is stupid. Seems like cyclist at fault, and cyclist attacks somone due to lack of self-control. Clink should cure that.

 

[downfader]

My feeling is that Tony Magdi opened his door without looking in his mirror like we have all done at some time. The cyclist swerved but apparently wasn't hit. The other cyclist probably gave Mr Magdi some serious verbal and knowing Mr Magdi (Which I do) he would have asked him not to swear at him. I guess this individual is carrying around some serious baggage (carrying it on a bike that morning) and somehow thought it acceptable to use violence against another person to get his point across.
Now the whole community of West Hove are having to deal with the possible death of one of the cornerstones of that community.
Tony is a well liked character, running a fruit and veg shop, you go in for some spuds and he would give you a bag of free bananas, he would give your kids an apple, and his apples were always the best.
I really hope the man responsible for this attrocity gets the help he needs to rejoin the civilised human race.
As for your 'there's such a thing as provocation' I would say to you that there is also such a thing as 'perspective' and you are severely lacking some in your comments.
A man is hanging onto his life by a thread here.

Thanks for commenting!

I dont think Tynan meant any offence, its just the personal experiences many of us have had that can lead us to assume things or ask questions.

 

[jmaccyd]

My feeling is that Tony Magdi opened his door without looking in his mirror like we have all done at some time. The cyclist swerved but apparently wasn't hit. The other cyclist probably gave Mr Magdi some serious verbal and knowing Mr Magdi (Which I do) he would have asked him not to swear at him. I guess this individual is carrying around some serious baggage (carrying it on a bike that morning) and somehow thought it acceptable to use violence against another person to get his point across.
Now the whole community of West Hove are having to deal with the possible death of one of the cornerstones of that community.
Tony is a well liked character, running a fruit and veg shop, you go in for some spuds and he would give you a bag of free bananas, he would give your kids an apple, and his apples were always the best.
I really hope the man responsible for this attrocity gets the help he needs to rejoin the civilised human race.
As for your 'there's such a thing as provocation' I would say to you that there is also such a thing as 'perspective' and you are severely lacking some in your comments.
A man is hanging onto his life by a thread here.

Spot on sir. I for one make no presumptions about what happened beyond the very limited facts known. I hope for a swift recovery of the injured party, and a thorough investigation by the lawful authorities, for the accused to stand for trial in front of a jury of twelve men good and true.

 

[Longboarder]

I'm sure he didn't. I once chased a Volvo estate driver who clipped me whilst I was riding down Camden Hill in the bike lane.
I chased him all the way to Kings X because I was so incensed that he didn't even stop and say sorry. Yes he was scared, yes I probably looked like a maniac but all I did was make him realise that he had hit someone and should be more careful of other road users, I didn't hit him!!
What this chap did has nothing to do with bikes or cars it's all about him and his f*ck ups.
As a cyclist & a car driver I have no time for so called 'Road Rage', if someone rages me I always pull over and let them drive out of my life, which is where I want them to be. Why get involved with people like that. If you find yourself in control of a car/bike and acting out (i.e. externalising your screw ups) it's really time to have a word with yourself.
Cycling is genius, leave your shoot at home......

Thanks for commenting!

I dont think Tynan meant any offence, its just the personal experiences many of us have had that can lead us to assume things or ask questions.

 

[661-Pete]

I know exactly what you describe, Longboarder! Many years ago, when I was a lot younger and perhaps more impulsive, I was cut up by a motorist as I was moving out to the right-hand lane in heavy traffic to turn right, this car lurched out from the left-hand lane too, and then cut around me. I gave chase with little expectation of catching it, seeing as the road we both turned into was a steep uphill. But the driver, seeing me following, got flustered and fluffed a gear-change, stalling the car. I drew alongside. Then I really let rip with shouting and gesticulating. I can't remember what I said. Then I saw that the driver was a middle-aged, somewhat frail looking woman. She was utterly petrified with fear, clutching the wheel with white knuckles, staring straight ahead, seemed about to throw up. I don't remember when I came to my senses and rode off. I feel ashamed of that episode, and I hope she was OK. There have been other times, but that was the worst.

But at least I didn't hit anyone, nor have I ever hit a car. Something thankfully held me back. Maybe I've just got that degree of rationality, I don't go too far...

For some, alas! they go that little step further. I'm not trying to exonerate the attacker, but it may well be that 'diminished responsibility' may enter into the proceedings. Especially if Mr Magdi tragically does not survive. But I'm no expert.

Anyway, good to see you contribute to this forum. Stay here, now that you've registered, I'm sure your future posts will be welcome!

 

[downfader]

http://www.theargus....ke_rage_attack/

Sadly the man has died. I wonder if the guy who hit him will now be charged with Manslaughter? Was watching South Today and saw it on there.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

That is tragic. He was quite a local character.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

I'd go further than Greg, and say, there's no excuse whatever for punching anyone, for any reason, unless you're a trained boxer in the ring with another boxer!

*cough*

So, when I was being beaten repeatedly over the head with a baseball bat and was trying to clamber over a wall to make my escape (low wall out of a public park, no I wasn't somewhere that i shouldn't have been) with one hand, whilst having my arm over my head instinctively to prevent further damage (I have a 4" permanent scar on my head from this), the people helping me should not have punched the Babe Ruth wannabe to protect me from a more serious injury whilst the others dragged me away and called the ambulance and should presumably be prosecuted for assault to the full extent of the law?

You can't make statements like "there's no excuse whatever for any reason" - you can't set strict legislation for every circumstance, which is why we have courts and court cases