cougie uk
Guru
That's rubbish. Look after your kit and it will last you years.
I bet the round the world record breakers haven't gone out with Tiagra or 5 speed chains.
I've had Ultegra on various bikes for years.
Best value bike with discs and ultegra...?
- Thread starter BrodieCull
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I bet the round the world record breakers haven't gone out with Tiagra or 5 speed chains.
I've had Ultegra on various bikes for years.
vickster
Legendary Member
A few grams ligher! SRAM components can be used with Shimano and are a bit lighter (a few grams) but can cost a bit more.
When I say unbranded, I meant eg from Decathlon (which are I think made by Shimano) not cheap hooky stuff from China
I can't speak to 7/8/9 speed as all my bikes are now 10 or 11 speed (SRAM, I happily use Shimano cassettes and would buy from Decathlon if required). Can't recall when I last changed a cassette or chain actually as a recreational cyclist doing 2-3k miles a year across several bikes. I do have a spare 10 speed cassette and chain waiting, bought before the pandemic.
I expect someone looking to spend £3k on a bike may not be too fussed about an extra £50 a year on a cassette. I'm not especially for example
bonzobanana
Guru
If they are record breakers wouldn't they more likely have performance components but if they were just general touring wouldn't they want longer lasting stronger and more durable components which are more easy to find abroad in countries where high end components are rarely sold. Surely no one would use Ultegra for long distance touring seems utter madness unless speed is a big factor.
cougie uk
Guru
Pretty sure there's very few people touring more distance than 'around the world'.
This is the bike of the women's unsupported record holder. She chose Ultegra.
https://www.shandcycles.com/jenny-grahams-world-record-breaking-bike/
You've not even ridden Ultegra so why do you think it's not as strong or durable ?
bonzobanana
Guru
A few grams ligher! SRAM components can be used with Shimano and are a bit lighter (a few grams) but can cost a bit more.
When I say unbranded, I meant eg from Decathlon (which are I think made by Shimano) not cheap hooky stuff from China
I can't speak to 7/8/9 speed as all my bikes are now 10 or 11 speed (SRAM, I happily use Shimano cassettes and would buy from Decathlon if required). Can't recall when I last changed a cassette or chain actually as a recreational cyclist doing 2-3k miles a year across several bikes. I do have a spare 10 speed cassette and chain waiting, bought before the pandemic.
I expect someone looking to spend £3k on a bike may not be too fussed about an extra £50 a year on a cassette. I'm not especially for example
Do Shimano allow any other brand on their products? Genuine question I've not heard of that before. I seen Decathlon stuff which is fairly generic Chinese products, also some components were rebranded Sunrace and Suntour I believe. However with regard chains I think Decathlon has done rebranded KMC chains as has Shimano so they could be the same but the actual manufacturer is KMC. KMC chains are everywhere rebranded it seems as well as sold under their own brand. Same as CST and Kenda inner tubes most brands it seems are just rebranding those. If the inner tube is pre-talced its likely to be Kenda and if not more likely to be CST.
Obviously chain lifespan has many variables, weight of rider, power of rider, how often cleaned/lubed, how many hills, quality of chain etc. My understanding is thinner, lighter chains like 11 and 12 speed have a significantly shorter lifespan typically. I think I read it in Shimano literature sometime ago. Cycling tips have a lot of info on performance road bike chain lifespans. I seem to remember 105 scored well although maybe beaten by a SRAM chain, not sure.
Elybazza61
Guru
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Chislenko
Veteran
I think a lot depends what level of cyclist you are.
I'm an old bas-ard now getting slower by the year.
I have one bike with Ultegra, one with Sora and one with part Sora / part Mismatch and to be honest I don't really see / feel any discernable difference between the three of them.
Perhaps if I was somebody bombing around at 20mph average constantly changing gear then yes the Ultegra is a bit smoother and having more gears there are smaller gaps but is the price difference reflected in the performance difference, I personally don't think so.
I'm an old bas-ard now getting slower by the year.
I have one bike with Ultegra, one with Sora and one with part Sora / part Mismatch and to be honest I don't really see / feel any discernable difference between the three of them.
Perhaps if I was somebody bombing around at 20mph average constantly changing gear then yes the Ultegra is a bit smoother and having more gears there are smaller gaps but is the price difference reflected in the performance difference, I personally don't think so.
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
I feel you've a lot of research to do and one fundamental question to ask yourself as it isn't really a matter of best "options" or "value." I always ask myself what do I want out of this bike? What riding do I want it to cover. Then I start to narrow down the possibilities. Usually takes me six months but I know that's way too long.......
As regards a brand and likely availability I would look at Dolan. These are very good bikes, I haven't owned one for years but loved mine and I've several friends who've purchased excellent Dolans over the last two years.
Quality is very good and availability seems to be OK. I have three friends who ordered a Dolan in recent months. Each delivered within a week of the promised date. One had to accept different tyres another an 11/32 instead of the 11/34 ordered. All three bikes were £3000+.
Lead time was three months.
As regards a brand and likely availability I would look at Dolan. These are very good bikes, I haven't owned one for years but loved mine and I've several friends who've purchased excellent Dolans over the last two years.
Quality is very good and availability seems to be OK. I have three friends who ordered a Dolan in recent months. Each delivered within a week of the promised date. One had to accept different tyres another an 11/32 instead of the 11/34 ordered. All three bikes were £3000+.
Lead time was three months.
IanSmithCSE
Guru
- Location
- Worcester, Worcestershire
Don't forget that Ultegra is now 12 speed Di2 only, it is horrendously expensive as there is no need to discount it.
So you would be looking for last year's models if you want to be able to mix and match with 11 speed 105.
Ribble are offering the same bike with different delivery dates Tiagra Apr '22, 11 speed mech Ultegra May '22 and 12 speed Ultegra Jul '22. So who knows what is still being made?
So you would be looking for last year's models if you want to be able to mix and match with 11 speed 105.
Ribble are offering the same bike with different delivery dates Tiagra Apr '22, 11 speed mech Ultegra May '22 and 12 speed Ultegra Jul '22. So who knows what is still being made?
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bonzobanana
Guru
Again fastest woman, record holder etc, she is obviously going to go for lighter more performance components. I don't understand your last point even bicycle shops state Ultegra is not as strong or durable. It's performance components made of lighter materials, thinner chains etc. Such components are not designed for touring, that doesn't mean they can't be but they are less than ideal, less optimised.
As per the Giant instructions which clarifies the purpose of high performance road bikes;
High-Performance Road CONDITION 1 Bikes designed for riding on a paved surface where the tires do not lose ground contact. INTENDED To be ridden on paved roads only. NOT INTENDED For off-road, cyclocross, or touring with racks or panniers. TRADE OFF Material use is optimized to deliver both light weight and specific performance. You must understand that (1) these types of bikes are intended to give an aggressive racer or competitive cyclist a performance advantage over a relatively short product life, (2) a less aggressive rider will enjoy longer frame life, (3) you are choosing light weight (shorter frame life) over more frame weight and a longer frame life, (4) you are choosing light weight over more dent resistant or rugged frames that weigh more. All frames that are very light need frequent inspection. These frames are likely to be damaged or broken in a crash. They are not designed to take abuse or be a rugged workhorse. See also Appendix B.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_us/Giant Owner's Manual -- EN.pdf
vickster
Legendary Member
@BrodieCull what will you be using the bike for? Recreation, all year commuting, racing?
Budget?
Budget?
Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
This was unsupported round the world. She will have found reliability as important as performance.
The only groupset comparisons I can find which actually mention durability at all (most don't) suggest that Ultegra is more durable than 105.
cougie uk
Guru
Bonzo. Go buy some Ultegra and come back to me in a few years with how you got on. It's plenty durable.
I have 2015 ultegra, 2018 105 and 2014 Claris. The Claris was ridden more often, as it was used on my (very short) commute. The 105 has done the most miles. The ultegra is on a carbon road bike, which spends a lot of time on a turbo and only goes out in good weather. The 105 is on a steel audax bike which is a real workhorse.
The claris has consistently been more trouble. I've had to replace most parts, and have had issues off and on with the front derailleur. The shifting is always clunky and obvious, not helped by bigger gaps between gears.
The older version of ultegra on my road bike is consistently very good. Clicking down one gear at speed is almost unnoticeable.
My 105 has done about 12000 miles. It has never had a new cassette, or crankset. Nor has the ultegra, although it has done fewer miles.
I use ultegra 11 speed chains on both of them, wipe and lightly oil them every time they are out and change the chains every 1500- 2000 miles.
The claris wasn't oiled every day, but was wiped and oiled once a week, on Monday morning. It has had a crankset, cassette and gets at least an annual chain, being changed on fewer miles than the other two.
I'm certainly not getting the idea that ultegra is less durable than anything else. Lubricating all the pivot points regularly and keeping the bikes
inside has worked for me. I don't even follow the idea often put forward here that cables need changed once a year. My audax bike has only had one set of cables and is now 4 years old.
I've found both ultegra and 105 to be impeccable - claris much less so.
The claris has consistently been more trouble. I've had to replace most parts, and have had issues off and on with the front derailleur. The shifting is always clunky and obvious, not helped by bigger gaps between gears.
The older version of ultegra on my road bike is consistently very good. Clicking down one gear at speed is almost unnoticeable.
My 105 has done about 12000 miles. It has never had a new cassette, or crankset. Nor has the ultegra, although it has done fewer miles.
I use ultegra 11 speed chains on both of them, wipe and lightly oil them every time they are out and change the chains every 1500- 2000 miles.
The claris wasn't oiled every day, but was wiped and oiled once a week, on Monday morning. It has had a crankset, cassette and gets at least an annual chain, being changed on fewer miles than the other two.
I'm certainly not getting the idea that ultegra is less durable than anything else. Lubricating all the pivot points regularly and keeping the bikes
inside has worked for me. I don't even follow the idea often put forward here that cables need changed once a year. My audax bike has only had one set of cables and is now 4 years old.
I've found both ultegra and 105 to be impeccable - claris much less so.
bonzobanana
Guru
Again as per the text I quoted from Giant, not intended for touring, shorter lifespan, not durable, optimised for performance. Do you have a breakdown on every time the groupset needed maintenance and replacement parts on her ride? When I've spoken to bicycle shop staff specifically asking about lifespan of components at the high end they have always said it was less. I seem to remember shops stating how good 105 was, easier servicing, solid forged crankset not bonded, reduced wear rate on cassettes, longer lasting chains etc. 105 vs Ultegra, Ultegra vs Dura-Ace I've never seen anything that doesn't say the higher end components typically last less. In fact I've seen touring bike recommendations to use mountain bike cassettes as they are typically harder wearing with more steel cogs etc.
This is all moving away from the thread subject matter where I just made the point that the higher end groupsets obviously need higher end replacement parts and you should factor that into your buying decision. It's not just a one off purchase but a continued higher expenditure down the line. Clearly the parts cost a lot more but there is some debate here how long they last I honestly believe based on all the evidence I've seen they do not last as long and are more likely to fail based like some of the Ultegra bonded components but that clearly isn't a universal view but there is no doubt that replacement parts of the same standard as originally fitted will cost more.
If you have a super high disposable income then that may not matter to you but I felt given the topic was the cheapest Ultegra bike that maybe the disposable income wasn't super high. You could make the case that 105 equipped bike with a higher end frame, forks and wheels would offer better performance and have less ongoing costs based on the cheaper 105 groupset. Taking the hit with a heavier groupset but ending up with a lighter frame, forks and wheels means you could end up with a lighter bike, easier to service, cheaper replacement parts etc. What I would call a solid win. It's all a mute point though if the bike in question is for fair weather riding only at weekends and won't clock up huge miles over its ownership.
