notmyrealnamebutclose
Senior Member
You could be right but where's the fun in that
Bicycle fitting nightmare
- Thread starter TK421
- Start date
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
In such an alignment that you don't have an uncomfortable bend of the wrist to use them!
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
What the OP has pointed out is valid ! We have said that according to the figures he quote for his frame size compared to his height that the bike he has would be too big for him yet from the pictures it looks to be the opposite! It looks more like he needs a larger frame .
I have just bought a similar Boardman frame, it was cheap and had some good components on it so I wasn't too worried about the size . I will get it to fit one way or another! I have measured the frame and it is 54 seat tube and 54 top tube or crossbar. I am 5ft 10 ins or 5 ft 10.5 ins. I haven't put any wheels on it yet so I just sat across the frame , placed my feet on the pedals and placed my hands on the hoods. It feels a bit of a stretch! This is just my initial thoughts. As I say I haven't fitted wheels so it is just my first impression.
Trying to find images of riders just cycling along from the side as a comparison of how you should look is difficult. All I seem to have found in a couple of cycling magazines are either of cyclists standing up on the pedals or taken from some fancy angle .
This is new to me as the OP as I am used to classic steel road bikes. I just thought I would give these style of bikes a try .
I have just bought a similar Boardman frame, it was cheap and had some good components on it so I wasn't too worried about the size . I will get it to fit one way or another! I have measured the frame and it is 54 seat tube and 54 top tube or crossbar. I am 5ft 10 ins or 5 ft 10.5 ins. I haven't put any wheels on it yet so I just sat across the frame , placed my feet on the pedals and placed my hands on the hoods. It feels a bit of a stretch! This is just my initial thoughts. As I say I haven't fitted wheels so it is just my first impression.
Trying to find images of riders just cycling along from the side as a comparison of how you should look is difficult. All I seem to have found in a couple of cycling magazines are either of cyclists standing up on the pedals or taken from some fancy angle .
This is new to me as the OP as I am used to classic steel road bikes. I just thought I would give these style of bikes a try .
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
I suspect you think I'm unsympathetic, I'm not. I don't think I said any experienced cyclist should be able to solve this. You have someone available to take photos, perhaps the same person can look at you on the bike and comment on whether you look comfortable or not. I'm exactly the same height and inside leg as you, I've spent time yesterday trying to figure out the solution, even to the extent I found the geometry of your bike and compared it directly with mine. As far as I can tell your frame is bigger which given how cramped you look doesn't make sense. I think there are two possibilities; first you continue to overthink what is a very simple task and second, as mentioned up thread, or the frame just doesn't work for you.
I can only think of two points. Once again go back to basics. I read your detailed post of recent adjustments several times, it left me confused. My bike position at it's simplest is this; I can "just" sit on the saddle with the ball of my foot on the ground and my foot extended upwards. This is a slight stretch. The hand position is on the curve, slightly in front of the curve or on the straight section inside the curve, my elbows are "soft," back straight and fully extended the knee is 10-12⁰ bent. I look as though I have plenty of space on the bike. If I was to ride on the hoods for any period of time I would feel stretched. It isn't necessary to ride on the hoods for long periods and moving back nearer the curve will effectively gain your 3". From each of those positions it's easy to move to the hoods. In this position I have the flexibility I need to "move around" the bike as different circumstances dictate - the crucial point for me is if I change position my sit bones don't move.
Can't think of much else except one thing. Don't change everything at once. Height first, reach second. I think you mentioned aero bars. Don't attempt these until you are 100% confident in your position and bike handling. Good luck.
Last edited:
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
Thank you. I have to admit I was pretty chuffed when my friend returned saying "Thanks, Paul. You just cost me £80. No adjustments needed!"
Jameshow
Veteran
Well boardman was a racer and into aerodynamics!!🤣🤣
biggs682
Touch it up and ride it
- Location
- Northamptonshire
I found myself yesterday morning looking at my riding position every time I saw my shadow which was quite a bit but I just couldn't get a good picture as I was riding .
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
I did exactly the same on Saturday and watched how my buddies held their bars!!!! 🤣
biggs682
Touch it up and ride it
- Location
- Northamptonshire
And I bet they were all different
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
They were and I've never really taken much notice of it before. I asked each about it, the basic reply was I'm comfortable. One struck me as rather odd. Thumb over the top of the hood with fingers wrapped around under the bars behind the levers. I suspect I do that if I'm on the drops so I'll have to remember to think about it!!!!!
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
Right!
I quickly got my Boardman X7 Sport similar to the OP's bike ready for a ride. I borrowed a pair of wheels off another bike . The frame size if measured from the centre of the bottom bracket to the very top of the seat post clamp is 54cm. I think to measure to some imaginary line from the centre line of the crossbar is just confusing . The saddle will only go down to the highest point .
When I first sat on the frame minus wheels with my feet on the pedal , the bike was resting on the chainring the seat position felt right . The reach to the hoods felt a bit of a stretch. Oh! I'm about 5ft 10.5 ins , so according to the charts it should be fine . After fitting the wheels and sitting on the bike it felt like the saddle needed raising . I raised the saddle about an inch before setting off for my ride . After going a few yards I had to raise the saddle even more . I set off once again but felt that my legs were still bent but continued with my ride . Poor decision! The backs of my knees were hurting last night !
The ride itself felt nice . The stretch to the hoods needs sorting . The saddle could go forward or perhaps it needs a shorter stem . I need to see how my knee lines up with the pedals .
It is as they say a minefield out there ! When you look at all of the designs of cycles with differing angles of crossbars ! At least with the old horizontal crossbars you had some idea where you were . Now we have small frames with massive seat posts which seems to be causing some confusion .
As for having the balls of both feet on the ground I prefer just one foot with one left on a pedal . My wife prefers both feet firmly planted on the ground ! This caused a lot of problems trying to sort her bike out ! I couldn't ride it ! The frame is long but the saddle was low . When I tested it it felt like my knees were hitting my chin ! It was impossible to ride. I fitted a new crank with smaller arms to resolve things. It was a lot better. At least it was rideable.
As mentioned previously I've also seen people riding around on bikes where their legs hardly seem to straighten ! I suppose their legs are used to it now but they would get on better if they raised their saddle a bit .
I quickly got my Boardman X7 Sport similar to the OP's bike ready for a ride. I borrowed a pair of wheels off another bike . The frame size if measured from the centre of the bottom bracket to the very top of the seat post clamp is 54cm. I think to measure to some imaginary line from the centre line of the crossbar is just confusing . The saddle will only go down to the highest point .
When I first sat on the frame minus wheels with my feet on the pedal , the bike was resting on the chainring the seat position felt right . The reach to the hoods felt a bit of a stretch. Oh! I'm about 5ft 10.5 ins , so according to the charts it should be fine . After fitting the wheels and sitting on the bike it felt like the saddle needed raising . I raised the saddle about an inch before setting off for my ride . After going a few yards I had to raise the saddle even more . I set off once again but felt that my legs were still bent but continued with my ride . Poor decision! The backs of my knees were hurting last night !
The ride itself felt nice . The stretch to the hoods needs sorting . The saddle could go forward or perhaps it needs a shorter stem . I need to see how my knee lines up with the pedals .
It is as they say a minefield out there ! When you look at all of the designs of cycles with differing angles of crossbars ! At least with the old horizontal crossbars you had some idea where you were . Now we have small frames with massive seat posts which seems to be causing some confusion .
As for having the balls of both feet on the ground I prefer just one foot with one left on a pedal . My wife prefers both feet firmly planted on the ground ! This caused a lot of problems trying to sort her bike out ! I couldn't ride it ! The frame is long but the saddle was low . When I tested it it felt like my knees were hitting my chin ! It was impossible to ride. I fitted a new crank with smaller arms to resolve things. It was a lot better. At least it was rideable.
As mentioned previously I've also seen people riding around on bikes where their legs hardly seem to straighten ! I suppose their legs are used to it now but they would get on better if they raised their saddle a bit .
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Comfortable will depend on your flexibility and strength and power output as well as body shape. I’m sure if I still had the racer I got when 19 and went for a ride of over an hour, it wouldn’t be as comfortable as I found it back then.
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
Strange isn't it ! I've done the same thing .
I wonder if the number of cycling accidents will increase after this thread as cyclists are too busy looking at their reflections in shop windows ?
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
Looking at the photos, I'd say the OP's bike is way too small. But then again, we're all different and all bikes are different. I'd suggest the OP chucks all of those numbers into the bin and simply work from "feel".
For me, I know that if I can just stand over a frame without bashing myself in the unmentionables, then I'm in the right ballpark in terms of frame size. Then I use the back of a chair to hold on to (to avoid any graceless toppling over), I work out the saddle height by putting the heel of one foot on a pedal when it's at the bottom of its stroke. If my leg is straight (but not locked) then again, I'm in the right ballpark.
After that, I just go out and ride the bike, stopping to tweak as I go. Never really looked at numbers to be fair, but if I measure saddle height to bottom bracket and saddle nose to steerer on all my bikes, they're pretty well much the same. And that's across three different frame geometries / bike types (road bike, hybrid and rigid MTB) and three different wheel sizes (650c, 26" and 24")
When I'm in the saddle, there is no way I can touch the ground with my feet - I have to slide forward and down when I come to a stop. If I've the saddle low enough to touch the balls of both feet on the ground, I can barely ride the bike. Never ceases to amaze me how people can ride a bike with their knees almost hitting their ears...
The way I see this is that it's a similar circular debate when it comes to choosing shorts or saddles. We're all made differently and what works for me won't work for you sort of thing, and which is why (and it pains me to say this as an engineer) the numbers are a PITA.
For me, I know that if I can just stand over a frame without bashing myself in the unmentionables, then I'm in the right ballpark in terms of frame size. Then I use the back of a chair to hold on to (to avoid any graceless toppling over), I work out the saddle height by putting the heel of one foot on a pedal when it's at the bottom of its stroke. If my leg is straight (but not locked) then again, I'm in the right ballpark.
After that, I just go out and ride the bike, stopping to tweak as I go. Never really looked at numbers to be fair, but if I measure saddle height to bottom bracket and saddle nose to steerer on all my bikes, they're pretty well much the same. And that's across three different frame geometries / bike types (road bike, hybrid and rigid MTB) and three different wheel sizes (650c, 26" and 24")
When I'm in the saddle, there is no way I can touch the ground with my feet - I have to slide forward and down when I come to a stop. If I've the saddle low enough to touch the balls of both feet on the ground, I can barely ride the bike. Never ceases to amaze me how people can ride a bike with their knees almost hitting their ears...
The way I see this is that it's a similar circular debate when it comes to choosing shorts or saddles. We're all made differently and what works for me won't work for you sort of thing, and which is why (and it pains me to say this as an engineer) the numbers are a PITA.
youngoldbloke
The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
I suspect you think I'm unsympathetic, I'm not. I don't think I said any experienced cyclist should be able to solve this. You have someone available to take photos, perhaps the same person can look at you on the bike and comment on whether you look comfortable or not. I'm exactly the same height and inside leg as you, I've spent time yesterday trying to figure out the solution, even to the extent I found the geometry of your bike and compared it directly with mine. As far as I can tell your frame is bigger which given how cramped you look doesn't make sense. I think there are two possibilities; first you continue to overthink what is a very simple task and second, as mentioned up thread, or the frame just doesn't work for you.
I can only think of two points. Once again go back to basics. I read your detailed post of recent adjustments several times, it left me confused. My bike position at it's simplest is this; I can "just" sit on the saddle with the ball of my foot on the ground and my foot extended upwards. This is a slight stretch. The hand position is on the curve, slightly in front of the curve or on the straight section inside the curve, my elbows are "soft," back straight and fully extended the knee is 10-12⁰ bent. I look as though I have plenty of space on the bike. If I was to ride on the hoods for any period of time I would feel stretched. It isn't necessary to ride on the hoods for long periods and moving back nearer the curve will effectively gain your 3". From each of those positions it's easy to move to the hoods. In this position I have the flexibility I need to "move around" the bike as different circumstances dictate - the crucial point for me is if I change position my sit bones don't move.
Can't think of much else except one thing. Don't change everything at once. Height first, reach second. I think you mentioned aero bars. Don't attempt these until you are 100% confident in your position and bike handling. Good luck.
I think I'm even more confused now.
Much of the above from PaulSB rings true, especially only alter one thing at a time. Get the saddle height right first. Then the reach. Don't go changing the bars, cranks hood positions until later, if at all. Don't expect to ride comfortably in the drops if it's your first road bike, especially if you are carrying a little more around the waist than is desirable.
However I don't understand :
IME most riders of drop bar bikes spend most of their time riding on the hoods, fingers ready to apply the brakes, it's the default position.
Get the saddle height and reach (to the hoods) more or less right first, worry about drops later.
edit: Reynard sums it up nicely.