Bike Build - What To Do First?

[MacB]

Well I went ahead and bought the Dawes Civic from e-bay that HGF had pointed out to me. Has the horizontal dropouts and matches the frame size of my Giant, pictures are in my profile. I have some idea of how to proceed but would appreciate some advice on this:-

Strip frame and send, with forks, to somewhere that can resize the rear forks to 135mm and re-paint the frame for me - where and how much?

Will forks be ok, can new bits be added, bearings? or do I need to think on getting new forks/headset? If so how do I verify size and type needed?

Once I've got the frame and forks sorted out I'll revisit this to start on the build....thanks.....Al

 

[Radius]

resize the rear forks?

 

[hubgearfreak]

OK, see in your signature, there's a link to a thread about frames in it?

in that thread, in my first reply, there's a link to a website by a chap called sheldon brown - that link is about re-spacing steel frames.

get some wood, a chair, a ruler and some string and do it. it's that easy.
you can come back from the garage within the hour having completed it, and with your mechanical confidence boosted.

and well done on that bike, it's cheap, won't attract thieves and already has a single chainset. spot on commuting tool, especially with nice gears

 

[fossyant]

Argos (not the chain store) could re-space the rear end and paint it - won't be cheap though (i.e. the paint as they are rather good)

Forks - you'll just need a new headset - ideally - don't go fitting an old one, unless it's perfect - I assume it's a 1"/ 1 1/8"

If road frame, why 135mm - MTB hubs ? - See if you can 'get away' with fitting the intended wheel - worth a try

 

[Dave5N]

Bend the frame your self and get it powdercoated.

 

[MacB]

Thanks HGF, I have scrutinised Sheldon Brown on this matter and I'm getting a bit out of my depth. I think there is an inate fear of doing something wrong, in an irreversible manner. The rear drop out spacing is 130mm on my rough measure and is required to be 135mm(new wheel is built around the S-RAM I-9 hub gear). Can I just push the drops apart until the new hub/wheel fits or does it have to be a more permanent adjustment? I know I can do the Sheldon route but, if I'm paying to get it stripped and painted, maybe they can throw in the re-spacing as part of the service?

Fossy - WARNING the following will contain many errors of terminology and understanding - so the headset is the bit with the bearings in etc that allows the rotation? The forks are just that and, by the look of this, it is some sort of quill fitting, I think it's 1"? The forks fit into the steering tube and are either held via a headset and quill system, or stem to fork and spacers set up? I think I prefer the idea of the stem attached to the fork with spacers dictating height. I assume this isn't feasible with the existing forks due to the quill fitting, and fact that top of forks doesn't protrude above steering tube? I think this all shows that a bit of reading, and some pictures, really don't resolve some things for a newbie like me

DaveN5 - too much information as usual mate, it took me ages to digest that one. Seriously what are the options, is a powder coat different to a new paint job? Think of me as mentally a young child then take a bit off that mental age before answering.

Radius - let me know if you need anything resizing, after a little while I'm sure you'd get the idea

 

[hubgearfreak]

Can I just push the drops apart until the new hub/wheel fits or does it have to be a more permanent adjustment?

sheldon has answered this question for you already in the link i've given you earlier.
i don't know what to think now, either you're not bothering with reading the links people are showing you to, meaning we're wasting our time, or you disbelieve sheldon?
sheldon has many years experience fettling bikes, knew more than we'll ever know in the field of bike fettling and has been and continues to be a mentor for millions of grateful home & professional mechanics. read what he's written- -he knows his onions.

if I'm paying to get it stripped and painted, maybe they can throw in the re-spacing as part of the service?

if you're paying to get it stripped and painted, then that's silly imho, until you've ridden that frame and know that you like it. a framebuilder is going to charge £100+ for a respray, and another c.£20 for coldsetting. that's a lot to invest in a frame you've not ridden.
if you're going the powder coating route (c.£30 seems the average figure here) then no, they can't be trusted to coldset it for you.

 

[gbb]

130 to 135mm, its ony 2.5 mm each side. I may have got it from Sheldons website, but its relatively easy to cold set the frame.
Once stripped, lay the frame on the floor.
Place one foot on the bottom rear stay to anchor it.
With a piece of strong timber (blimey, even a shovel would do) about 3 or 4 foot long, pass it under the top dropout with the other end going over the downtube. This will now allow you to apply some leverage to the dropout / rear stay.
Pull it up gently, but firmly. (Dont pull too hard, or you could possible fracture the rear brake bridge.)
Measure the distance again. You're looking for a 2.5mm increase.
Turn the frame over and repeat.
There is a bit about using string to check its all parallel...i didnt bother, mines run fine, but perhaps i was lucky.

 

[gbb]

Powdercoat or paint McB ?...depends on the quality of finish you want.

Mine was powdercoated. Its a tough finish, but slightly 'industrial'. No problem for a hack or winter bike, but it's not likely to rival a spray finish.

Also, maybe of interest, i could not get the old 1 inch headset cups off the frame on mine. I talked to the powdercoaters, and he suggested just taping them off. It very slighty spoils the finish between the frame and cups, but afterwards, you hardly notice anyway.

Its like everything, you gets what you pays for...you pay what its worth.

 

[MacB]

HGF - I do read the links and didn't intend to give the impression of wasting anyones time(afterall I did actually buy one of the bikes you suggested as a possible). Having never worked on a bike frame before I don't understand why anyone is surprised at my trepidation at the thought of going at it armed with a lump of 4x2 and some directions off the net. I also spoke to my LBS and the old boy there mentioned some sort of spreading tool they used to use. From the description it sounded like a manual sort of jack that was placed between the dropouts then expanded until desired dimension was reached. I haven't got all the details but something like that seems safer than letting me loose with a lump of wood! Sheldons site is superb but some things that may seem perfectly clear to yourself, may be murkier for someone like me with less experience. I must have been thinking powdercoating, not strip and respray, as I had £30-40 in my head. Just wanted the bike in a plain sort of matt black with no badges, emblems or stickers. Any more money and I might as well have bought the Cotic Roadrat frame.

GBB - thanks for the detail, it does make sense but, as above, I'm scared of damage, by applying too much force. If I can, I'll go the LBS route of pressurised spreading. Otherwise I'll try the lump of wood and a gentle progressive level of force. On closer inspection I think the drops may be 126mm, but that's still only 5mm a side.

So step 1 has to be re-spacing the rear dropouts cos if I mess that up then at least I won't have spent anything else on the frame. Won't ask for help on step 2 until this is successfully completed....thanks....Al

 

[Dave5N]

I live in Birmingham and industrial services are cheap. You can get a frame dipped, blasted and powdercoated for £20. Perfect finish, except if it chips on corners such as dropouts and bosses it can flake, especially when new.

 

[Dave5N]

And 'coldsetting' is just bollockese for 'bend'.

I'd heed the advice above with caution. You need to measure what you do carefully - a misaligned frame can be a real bitch to ride.

 

[mickle]

Sorry, I think some of you are taking the piss. Possible eff up numero uno; in the process of trying to 'bend' two drop-outs 2.5mm each you bend one stay 7.5mm. Now what do you do? Possible eff up #2, you have no idea if the drop-outs on this frame are parallel now let alone after you've attacked the frame with a piece of 4x2. And what happens to the axles of geared hubs when they are placed in non parallel drop-outs and then ridden any distance? Anyone? They break is what happens to them. Do any of you lot (with the possible exception of Hubgearfreek) fancy replacing the axle of a nine speed SRAM hub? No you bloody don't. Perhaps we should remind ourselves how much Mr MacB has spent on this rear wheel.

MacB, have the rear end re-spaced by the nearest best bike shop using the correct drop-out alignment tools.

 

[Dave5N]

Sorry, I think some of you are taking the piss. Possible eff up numero uno; in the process of trying to 'bend' two drop-outs 2.5mm each you bend one stay 7.5mm. Now what do you do? Possible eff up #2, you have no idea if the drop-outs on this frame are parallel now let alone after you've attacked the frame with a piece of 4x2. And what happens to the axles of geared hubs when they are placed in non parallel drop-outs and then ridden any distance? Anyone? They break is what happens to them. Do any of you lot (with the possible exception of Hubgearfreek) fancy replacing the axle of a nine speed SRAM hub? No you bloody don't. Perhaps we should remind ourselves how much Mr MacB has spent on this rear wheel.

MacB, have the rear end re-spaced by the nearest best bike shop using the correct drop-out alignment tools.

Ahem. See above. You are right - and very, um, forthright.

 

[NickM]

MacB, have the rear end re-spaced by the nearest best bike shop using the correct drop-out alignment tools.

Agreed. Then assemble the bike and ride it for a while before you decide how much to spend on paint. You'll learn something in the process, and do it more confidently next time.

I haven't had a frame powder coated, but if done by a firm outside the bike trade I doubt that they would (e.g.) mask the bottom bracket threads. You could end up having to go to a frame builder or well-equipped LBS to have threads chased and the seat tube reamed before you'd be able to reassemble the bike.

Headset cups (the parts that fit in the head tube of the frame) and fork crown race (the round thing that sits on top of the bit of the fork that the blades plug into) really need installing by a competent bike shop, who will have the necessary tools to do the job precisely. It's almost always worth fitting a new, modern headset when you have an old frame resprayed. The original won't be as good as a recent one, and cheap old ones don't last long. You are right in thinking that you will need a threaded headset (so not an Aheadset) and to use a quill stem. Although you could use one of these if you want a Ahead-type stem, which can be a handy thing to have for its front-opening bar clamp.

PS this book is very good (although not now as blue as the edition I have), and even if you never do half the things in it you'll learn the terminology for talking to your LBS!