Binning old wheelsets.

[Mugshot]

Effective Rim Diameter. It is the measurement of the rim that determines the spoke length and not the tyre size. A deep section carbon rim has a smaller ERD than a shallow box section rim. The carbon rim would use shorter spokes, but both can use the same tyre. ERD on a 700C wheel is typically in the 600mm range, giving you a spoke length from 270mm to about 303mm, depending on the hub size. Even the slightest mis-match of ERD will render the existing spokes useless since they only have about 5mm of adjustment via the nipples.
ERD is tricky to measure and the problem with searching for an alternative rim with the same ERD as yours means that you have to a) know what your present ERD is and b) find one that matches even though the ERD is generally not published and the dealer will have no clue.
That's why it is pesky.

You did ask.

No, that's great. I understand that perfectly and it makes absolute sense too

 

[NickNick]

Good point. Either will do. Identical is easier for the novice because it eliminates one very pesky step.

What's the pesky step? I'm curious now!

 

[Mugshot]

What's the pesky step? I'm curious now!

What's your avatar @NickNick ?

 

[NickNick]

Photo of the headset and part of the front wheel of my old bike, followed by 10min of bashing away at random filter settings in photoshop.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

What's the pesky step? I'm curious now!

Determining the ERD and finding a suitable replacement rim, as described above.

 

[winjim]

As a novice who abhors pesky steps do I need to Google ERD?

Sorry, my post was merely a prompt for Yellow Saddle to expound on the subject. I see he now has.

 

[buzzy-beans]

Here's how you do it.

1) Sedate the wheel.
2) Tape the new rim flat against the old rim, lining up the valve holes nicely.
3) Loosen a nipple, move spoke over to the adjacent rim and turn the nipple back on with a turn or two.
4) Repeat.
5) Tension and true.

Step 5 may or may not be to (time) scale with the other points, but that's a topic for another day or, from a good book or, from YouTube.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you should un-tape the old rim after the op.

When replacing/transferring the spokes do you have to do it in the order of No. 1 spoke first, then opposite, then at 45 degrees then opposite etc. etc. ?

 

[Vapin' Joe]

ERD is tricky to measure and the problem with searching for an alternative rim with the same ERD as yours means that you have to a) know what your present ERD is and b) find one that matches even though the ERD is generally not published and the dealer will have no clue.
That's why it is pesky.

You did ask.

My LBS (And Mugshots) has a chart in his workshop with a list of spoke lengths for various hub and rim combinations. On the occasions I've bought a set of spokes there they have always been the correct length.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

My LBS (And Mugshots) has a chart in his workshop with a list of spoke lengths for various hub and rim combinations. On the occasions I've bought a set of spokes there they have always been the correct length.

Next time you're there have a good look at it. It will be very dated and certainly won't have Aksium on there. Reason being that in the old days there were only a few hub manufacturers and a handful of rim manufacturers and only two spoke patterns. The permutations have increased exponentially since then and no chart can do it.
I have measured about 600 different rims and about 500 different hubs and keep the details in a database. A simple chart cannot do it.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

When replacing/transferring the spokes do you have to do it in the order of No. 1 spoke first, then opposite, then at 45 degrees then opposite etc. etc. ?

No, you just go round the clock or any other way you like. It doesn't matter. It helps if you loosen all the spokes first (but not unscrewing the nipples completely). Otherwise the wheel squirms and the tape snaps.

 

[User6179]

From a super quick Google an Aksium rim is about £27 quid and the wheelset is around £130 or so, got to be worth a shot hasn't it.

Before you buy a rim check the nipples have not corroded on the spokes, had a few sets of Aksiums and they are bad for this, you go to true the wheel and the nipples are welded to the spokes.

 

[andrew_s]

Determining the ERD and finding a suitable replacement rim, as described above.

Online spoke length calculators like Edd
https://leonard.io/edd/
often have a rim and hub dimension database built in.
The numbers aren't 100% reliable, and they are generally somewhat out of date (lots of no longer obtainable rims, and missing many new rims), but they are a good starting point for looking for an equivalent rim.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Online spoke length calculators like Edd
https://leonard.io/edd/
often have a rim and hub dimension database built in.
The numbers aren't 100% reliable, and they are generally somewhat out of date (lots of no longer obtainable rims, and missing many new rims), but they are a good starting point for looking for an equivalent rim.

Hence why I have my own database. There is no standardised way of measuring ERD and when spoke lengths are critical (I round down by up to 2mm), then you better make sure that ERD means ERD. For instance. The company that makes Stan's rims have no idea how to measure ERD, yet they print a figure on the sticker on the rim that can get you into trouble if you don't double-check.
Measure twice, cut spokes once.

 

[chriscross1966]

I've never rebuilt a wheel although I am tempted to give it a go myself. I suppose the cost of someone who knows what they're doing rebuilding them would probably be prohibitive

LBS charges 30 quid plus parts per wheel... if you want some spare wheels then pick up some cheap rims and have a go yourself.... if you want good wheels and you've got decent hubs then get them to do it... I'm going to have a crack at the front wheel of my n+2 as it's radial, the LBS can do the rear, squeezing a Campy Record high-flange into a 349 rim for a Brompton, even at 1x is more than I fancy taking on.... which reminds me I need to do the front of the n+1 too...

 

[Mugshot]

LBS charges 30 quid plus parts per wheel... if you want some spare wheels then pick up some cheap rims and have a go yourself.... if you want good wheels and you've got decent hubs then get them to do it... I'm going to have a crack at the front wheel of my n+2 as it's radial, the LBS can do the rear, squeezing a Campy Record high-flange into a 349 rim for a Brompton, even at 1x is more than I fancy taking on.... which reminds me I need to do the front of the n+1 too...

I'm going to give it a go on the Aksiums I think. The Zondas seem to be a different kettle of fish though having had a bit of a google about replacement rims.