Bit of a funny thing with HR/Fitness level

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Travs

Well-Known Member
Location
Surbiton
The background (I know, I'm a bit wordy)
Been riding for about 18 months and wattbike training for well over a year. The WB I've been using exactly as its supposed to - controlled, conistent, training environment with technique feedback as well as power/speed/cadence/HR. I take the Garmin to the gym and record the sessions to track what I've done.
For the majority, I've been doing fat-burning sessions and long stints to just get the miles under the legs, endurance zone training and just getting the calories burnt.

As I'm down to do the Dragon Ride this year, more recently I've been focussing on upping my FTP, sitting in HRZ4 for much longer, and trying to recreate the power outputs that I have for my hillclimbs as estimated on Strava (ie using the estimated power output for the same time for my Ditchling Beacon PB) in order to improve my hillclimbing.

As for my HR, I've got it set to 196 max. I've had it at a few times to 192 when getting to the point where I'm starting to feel sick so adding another few on should be about right. All very unscientific I know but it'll do for now. Whereas I traditionally used to get out of my seat to climb, I've been trying to stay in the seat more to be conservative with energy as well as train the legs a little more.

My issue
Over the last couple of weeks, I can't seem to get my HR into the 180s without much more of a struggle. I've done a few hillclimbs while keeping it in the 170s. My legs are burning as before and my breathing is just as laboured as usual but its like my HR doesn't go as high for this performance. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Can it be my fitness has just stepped and I'm not challenging my CV system any more? I'm drinking about the same caffeine as usual but I've been focussing for the past few months on not taking on caffiene in my water additives; but for months, not the last couple of weeks.
I'm more than happy if my fitness can take this jump - I'll use it as motivation to push harder. But if this in indicative of something that shouldn't happen, then its probably better for me to see to that now.
 

Citius

Guest
Throw your HR monitor onto the fire and just carry on riding. HR is not a good or reliable indicator of fitness or performance level because it is so variable - are you are discovering.
 

dorian

Member
when your conditioning goes up your HR max goes down.
additionally, if you train with the same regime for months your body tend to adapt.
i'd say - if you were doing cardio for 90% of time - go try intervals. If you did interval work - switch to cardio (avg ~140 bpm max) training.
 
OP
OP
Travs

Travs

Well-Known Member
Location
Surbiton
Lol - cheers matey. That's good enough for me. I've not worried about anything else except for the numbers. Although perhaps my legs are getting more lacticky (you know what I mean) but that's a case of sucking it up and loving the burn, right?
 

Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
when your conditioning goes up your HR max goes down.
additionally, if you train with the same regime for months your body tend to adapt.
i'd say - if you were doing cardio for 90% of time - go try intervals. If you did interval work - switch to cardio (avg ~140 bpm max) training.

Is there any basis for any of this? To me this reads as a load of garbage
 

uclown2002

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Given that your focus is a 'sportive' then you're taking things far too seriously; just ride your bike, a lot and you'll get fitter and faster up those hills. Lose some weight if you need to as that'll help up hills.
 

Citius

Guest
Given that your focus is a 'sportive' then you're taking things far too seriously; just ride your bike, a lot and you'll get fitter and faster up those hills. Lose some weight if you need to as that'll help up hills.

This ^^. Nothing else - just that.
 
Maybe those hills are not as hard as your wattbike sessions. Strava is not exactly accurate on power, don't know about wattbikes.
 

Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
Thanks both - Rob3rt what's your take on things? Am I doomed?

Well, there could be loads of things at play. Most likely you are not analysing the data correctly or comparing like for like.

With regards a reduction of max heart rate with increased fitness, especially to any notable degree, that is garbage. If that was the case, your performance would likely decline. With increased fitness power output for a given heart rate (or percentage of max if you want to use that metric) would increase, conversely heart rate (or percentage of max heart rate) for a given power would decrease. However max heart rate will not decrease to any notable degree (the 7% or so reduction you are seeing can not possibly ve due to an actual reduction in max heart rate, the notion is simply preposterous.
 
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Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
Maybe those hills are not as hard as your wattbike sessions. Strava is not exactly accurate on power, don't know about wattbikes.

IME, watt bikes power measurement is highly variable. I trained on one, for 2 hours, once a week for a full winter. All other training sessions were done on my own bike with my power meter fitted. Regardless of absolute accuracy, my power meter was and still is consistent with itself and the values are in line with my relative performance against known competitors. The power on the wattbike for a given effort (judged by RPE or HR or when compared across the same resistance settings) was variable week to week to the degree it was of no practical use.

On top of this, the estimates on Strava are more like guestimates, they very rarely reflect reality. Again having a power meter on my bike and comparing actual data with other racers makes this very obvious.
 

dorian

Member
Rob3rt - it's just hiow our body works.
When i was starting my training i had Max HR of about 197 and resting heart rate of 60.
now my resting heart rate is at 37 and max HR is at 187, and during this time my VO2 max levels went up about 50% during this time.
when you excercise your body adapts and one of the ways of adaptation are changes in heart muscle.
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/06/max-heart-rate-and-fitness.html
If you're training for YEARS your MHR won't change notably - just fluctuate during the season, but when you start your training it's a different story.
however. MHR is a thing of least concern. I'd be more concerned if my Resting Heart Rate went up 5 bpm than MHR going down 10 bpm.

If you're serious into training go to some sports clinic and do some performarance testing.
 

uclown2002

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Rob3rt - it's just hiow our body works.
When i was starting my training i had Max HR of about 197 and resting heart rate of 60.
now my resting heart rate is at 37 and max HR is at 187, and during this time my VO2 max levels went up about 50% during this time.
when you excercise your body adapts and one of the ways of adaptation are changes in heart muscle.
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/06/max-heart-rate-and-fitness.html
If you're training for YEARS your MHR won't change notably - just fluctuate during the season, but when you start your training it's a different story.
however. MHR is a thing of least concern. I'd be more concerned if my Resting Heart Rate went up 5 bpm than MHR going down 10 bpm.

If you're serious into training go to some sports clinic and do some performarance testing.

Yeah, @Rob3rt go do that :rofl::rofl:

@dorian You'll find @Rob3rt is rather serious about his training!
 

Joshua Plumtree

Approaching perfection from a distance.
@dorian You'll find @Rob3rt is rather serious about his training![/QUOTE]

Pretty sure Rob3rt can't match Dorian's impressive improvements, so he obviously isn't that serious about his training. :rolleyes:
 
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