Bizarre Reaction

[400bhp]

[QUOTE 1728484, member: 9609"]

...Volvo estate

The strange thing is he is a really nice bloke[/quote]

There's your problem.

Volvo's seem to have the ability to make people become complete twunts. In particular the estate versions. Always seem to be driven badly.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I always like to ask myself the question: why is it one way? Is it because of the danger cyclists pose to other road users, including pedestrians? I've yet to find myself coming up with a yes.

Or is it one way because of the danger posed by motor vehicles (whether they're driven maliciously or not)? I always find myself answering yes.

 

[mickle]

There's your problem.

Volvo's seem to have the ability to make people become complete twunts. In particular the estate versions. Always seem to be driven badly.

Oi!

 

[400bhp]

Well, you're a bloody paradox.

 

[400bhp]

Like it

 

[jonny jeez]

those drivers already formed their stereotype and seek to reinforce it looking at that badly-behaving cyclist,

And how did they form it?

 

[enas]

And how did they form it?

I don't know, we should ask them maybe? In the same vein, how did racists form their racist opinions? It's the exact same story. God knows why the racist guy became racist in the first place, but surely, when he learns that someone, say, committed burglary, and he was, say, black, he will use that fact to reinforce his racist views, although the fact that the burglar was black is completely pointless and irrelevant to the normal non-racist guy. Do you see where I'm coming from?

If you want some attempted explanations of the negative views some drivers hold towards cyclists, there's always this document. Some quotes (my emphasising), but there's much more in it (read at least the conclusion, but really the whole document is really worth reading):

When prompted to consider cyclists in detail however it is clear that motorists hold negative views about cyclists and tend to view cycle users as an ‘out group’ with significantly different characteristics from most road users.

the individual driver’s perceived behavioural control in fulfilling their stated desire to behave cautiously is further undermined by what they consider to be a strong obligation to other motorised road users (fellow members of the ‘in group’) not to delay them. This sense of obligation seems to contribute to recognition that, despite understanding the ideal behaviour when encountering a cyclist, many drivers consider that the majority response would actually be to attempt to pass the cyclist.

Section 3.5 is quite interesting too, and contains the following paragraph, which essentially says in a much more elaborate way what I was trying to say:

A further point to note is that many of the transgressions which drivers identified as being perpetuated by cyclists almost certainly have some basis in reality, in the sense that some cyclists will have been observed behaving in this way at some time (e.g. riding on pavements or with no lights). However, there is a strong psychological tendency to over- generalise from the behaviour of individual members of an ‘out group’ to the behaviour of members of the ‘out group’ as a whole. Thus, occasional confirmations of inappropriate behaviour on the part of cyclists would tend to reinforce to an unwarranted extent drivers’ already negative perceptions of this group’s behaviour. (See Tajfel and Turner, 1986, on the tendency to regard members of a group as more similar to each other than is actually the case.)

Also, drivers tend to consider cyclists as inconsiderate in situations where the confidence of the driver in what the cyclist is going to do is decreased:

The lowest ratings were given where a refuge was added to the scene, thereby narrowing the road ahead, and creating the situation where the cyclist’s behaviour was most likely to impact on the driver. In this situation, the drivers reported their confidence in what they thought the cyclist was going to do decreased, and the perceived difficulty of overtaking him increased. The subject drivers were also much more likely to perceive the cyclist as inconsiderate (even though the cyclist’s behaviour was, in fact, constant within each road condition)

And there's much more...

 

[Hitcher]

Excuse me?



I don't see how's that relevant? I, for one, didn't condone cycling the wrong way (I never do it myself, where I live, in Ireland, where the laws and the cycling culture are very similar to the UK). But the OP himself acknowledges he's doing something wrong, and even admits he would have been happy to receive a fine for it, had he been reporting the driver with video evidence.

What you said re: car v bike, other countries, gave me the impression you did. Apologies.
A lot of crimes are reported without video evidence, and it would be interesting to see what the police response would be if you did report it, with or without video. (obviously without in this case)

Again, you both imply that I condone cycling the wrong way and "all the other things the we get stereotyped for". I haven't said anything like that, and accept all my apologies if I said anything that you interpreted as such. My point was that I don't accept that the badly behaving cyclists are to be held responsible for the fact that bad drivers put yourself at risk. I always ride by the book, I've nothing to reproach myself. When a driver or cyclist puts me at risk, my anger is rightfully directed at them and only them. I won't blame the red-light jumping cyclist that the driver saw minutes ago for having put him in bad mood causing him to feel frustrated at me.

I think that was MrHappyCyclist. Sorry if I did.

I believe entirely that the driver is totally responsible for their actions and are totally to blame. Apart from when I have made a mistake or put myself in a bad position. However the cyclist I care most about is me, and I would like that driver, and all drivers to see a cyclist and think positive things and give me what they would view as EXTRA room. This may then almost amount to a safe pass.
If they have just been cut up by a bike, or earlier that day were almost mown down by a red light jumper they are more likely to pass closer. Not out of any maliciousness, but just because they view less than a metre as safe adequate clearance and why should they make a special effort?
A wobble through a pothole, drain, a gust of wind, a puncture wobble, you are toast as you have zero wiggle room.

Eg I know several bus drivers. They are all very cycle aware, and nice, considerate people. However I have been knocked off by two london buses,(received one apology) and always assume when I am near them that they are actively out to get you, will always fail to signal and randomly change lanes.

 

[Hitcher]

[QUOTE 1734024, member: 9609"]I do understand where you are coming from with this argument, and although I disagree that one errant cyclist will give all the others a bad name I do appreciate that many CC cyclists do subscribe to your point of view.
[/quote]
So to my surprise the study enas has posted does seem to support this view.
[QUOTE 1734024, member: 9609"]
One more thing to consider - Cyclist are very likely to make a genuine mistake and travel the wrong way down a road. Take the road in question, if you were a visitor to my town, and many cyclists are. You may very well leave the town centre by pushing your bike through one of the vennels, if you come across this road mid way there is no signage, many of the cars are parked at 90°so no clues either. In fact there is a hotel where touring cyclist often stay, its 50/50 in the mornings which way they are going to go. Now some may say I would have deserved all I got if this lunatic had splattered me - would they be so pleased if it had been a genuine mistake that the cyclist could not have possibly known about?
[/quote]
So very important point: I DONT want you to get splattered. However you might be able to improve the life of a cyclist in your town. Maybe a quick email to the council? Pop in to the hotel and mention it. If they are supporters of cyclists then maybe they will be able to support your view to the council? Point out the danger (maybe exaggerate slightly? the negative impact on tourism when a visiting cyclist gets crunched!) to the council and beg for a contraflow cycle lane. Or more one way signs.

 

[jonny jeez]

And there's much more...

I'm sure there are, but they all fail to address the point...why do these opinions become formed.

I suspect they are formed from poor education and bad experience. Each of which is rooted in an initial poor experience (My dad hates cyclist because...I hate cyclist because...)...Stimulus response. All of the citations you mention are simply peddling the same symptom, not addressing the cause.

I'm saying all of this because you seem to be open minded and grounded in your views but at the same time you cannot except that poor experience will teach poor opinion...that's how poor opinion is formed.

So, RLJers, agro riders and cockwombles on bikes, all help to deliver poor impressions and create negative stereotypes.

ergo, those little shites make it worse for the rest of us.

 

[enas]

I'm sure there are, but they all fail to address the point...why do these opinions become formed.

Really, read the document, because it does address that point. You might agree or disagree with them, but it does provide some explanations. Of course what you say is right (that the misbehaving minority is reinforcing driver's negative opinion on cyclists), and is well explained in this document. But there's more than that.

First, there is a negative opinion to begin with (from some drivers, and the study shows that it's really a minority of drivers), independently from the misbehaving cyclists. There is an elaborate explanation of why is that, but roughly the point is that cyclists are perceived as an out-group, with different needs and non-anticipable behaviour (hence drivers don't know how they're supposed to behave around them), and with a perceived peer-pressure to favour members of your own group, even at the expense of the members of the out-group (hence drivers who feel compelled to overtake when they know they shouldn't).

Second, the perception of cyclists as an out-group is what leads to this act of generalising the perception of one member of the group to the group as a whole. You don't get this phenomenon with members of the in-group.

So, and it will end my involvement in this discussion, as it's getting away from the OP, my point is that we shouldn't aim at improving the behaviour of the misbehaving minority. Accepting this reasoning is accepting the status quo, and sometimes accepting that it's even valid for drivers to generalise the perception of some within the "out-group" to the whole "out-group". Cyclists are just humans on a bike, and you will get all sort of humans amongst them. As cyclist, we should try to understand why cyclists are perceived as an out-group, and concentrate our energy at eliminating this distinction, and normalising cycling as an activity. This study, although not its main scope, also provides some elements addressing these aspects.

 

[Hitcher]

So, and it will end my involvement in this discussion, as it's getting away from the OP, my point is that we shouldn't aim at improving the behaviour of the misbehaving minority. Accepting this reasoning is accepting the status quo, and sometimes accepting that it's even valid for drivers to generalise the perception of some within the "out-group" to the whole "out-group". Cyclists are just humans on a bike, and you will get all sort of humans amongst them. As cyclist, we should try to understand why cyclists are perceived as an out-group, and concentrate our energy at eliminating this distinction, and normalising cycling as an activity. This study, although not its main scope, also provides some elements addressing these aspects.

So I totally agree with this, however... this will take time. While this is happening I think it only takes a small effort to try and remind the few who don't, to take more notice of the Highway Code, use lights, etc. And this also improves the safety for cyclists, even if it is just one person who buys a light and now doesn't get knocked off as they are now visible.
TTFN

 

[jonny jeez]

So, and it will end my involvement in this discussion, .

No, dont do that...this is an interesting point

 

[jonny jeez]

Really, read the document,.

I really don't want to pass these guys my details just to download, do you have a copy you can post in a dropbox account or something, so that we can have unfettered access. It sounds interesting

 

[enas]

I really don't want to pass these guys my details just to download, do you have a copy you can post in a dropbox account or something, so that we can have unfettered access. It sounds interesting

You can download it entering dummy details, but the PDF is online in other locations, such as here.