Bizarre Reaction

[jonny jeez]

It was nice chatting with you.

you too.

but to tempt you back I would say....We are so close to complete agreement, its just that our position on "what makes" a person more likely to form negative view is in opposition to mine.

I don't think we are Born to be racists or haters, or jugglers, or cyclists, it is not inherent within us. It is a product of our environment.

I agree that one negative interaction may not create a hater...but two or three almost certainly is enough and I see more than two or three RLJers per mile, let alone per journey...each day.

If I wasn't a cyclist myself and had not had the benefit of knowing, meeting and interacting with other like minded people, could I too have formed a negative view of cyclists (as a whole) from my daily interaction?

...very possibly ...and I don't consider myself an inherent hater.

 

[BentMikey]

To destroy your point, jonny, and to agree with enas, drivers see bad drivers all the time, but they don't form bad impressions of drivers as a group. That's because they belong to the same tribe, and cyclists don't.

I'll give you another example of a friend, who can get a good rant on about cyclists jumping red lights, but doesn't bat an eyelid at her husband who blithely admits to doing 90mph on the motorway.

 

[mickle]

I know people who ride bicycles who rant and rage about cyclists (children cyclists as it happens) pootling gently down the pavement outside their house, and who even make formal complaints to the local school about it. But then don't bat an eyelid at the Corsa driving at 45+ mph down the same (30mph) road. Near a school, obviously.

It is a state of mind which no amount of 'legal cycling' will change.

 

[growingvegetables]

but why...how did the "TRIBE" form in the first place.

Just a wee fwiw - a perception on the "state of mind" from being out of the UK for 15 years. I don't remember there being (back then) anything remotely like the hostility and aggression of today's roads.

The major "objective" difference between then and now - the enormous increase in numbers/congestion. So we get an elaborate battle for "space" - mainly negotiated between players of about the same size and weight. Couple of snapshot views out of my window;
- #1 - probably 50 cars and vans in view;
- #2 - ditto on cars and vans, + 1 bus and 1 truck;
- #3 - dropped to about 15 cars and vans;
- #4 - up to 30 cars and vans.

Not a cyclist in sight once.

So - when I go out in a few minutes, I'll upset the unwritten rules and rhythm of the little congested ballet between equals? Gut tells me that's a better explanation for the mentality - rather than attributing it to law-breaking cyclists?

(Also based on a wee point of fact - there just aren't enough cyclists, let alone RLJ-ers, in Leeds for ALL the aggressive drivers to have seen even one RLJ!)

 

[Crackedheadset]

I do ride within the law at all times, I see it as my duty. But we are not the problem. Here we are navel gazing about how best to present ourselves so as to be taken seriously by other road users.

I agree and to start off with the best way would be to ride in a responsible legal manner surely? The RTA is there for a reason and it applies to all road users.

[/quote]
The joke is that they don't give a shoot, the haters will hate us however we ride. [/quote]
That's fine and I agree, but people will hate you even more, and with a bitter taste if you take the piss when out on the road. Sounds to me like like you yourself is making trying to make excuses, what for I don't quite know.

[/quote]
We need to stop apologising for our existence and start standing up for ourselves. And one of the first things we must do is to communicate loud and clear that cyclists pose no danger. Ultimately I don't give a shoot how many cyclists run red lights, ride on the pavement etc, we don't kill people,
[/quote]

I don't apolgise for my existence but still ride in a responsible and legal manner, it's not hard. I now know you are finding excuses for people riding like they pretty much want. You don't care how may cyclists run lights or ride on the pavement???? What kind of attitude is that? As mentioned the RTA exists for harmony and synergy out on the road, if people don't give a shoot then the roads would be far far worse then what they are now. Presently, I rarely have a problem and over the last five or so years I can count on one hand the amount of altercations I've had. And someone has died as a result of a collison with a cyclist so it can happen.

[/quote]motorist do. Before I listen to any criticism of cyclists we need to have a good long discussion about what drivers intend to do about the carnage on the roads.[/quote]

LOL, really??? Carnage??? farking hell, with all due respect you sound like some cycling martyr and is exactly the kind of attitude that would raise the levels of hostility out on the roads rather then reduce.

 

[Crackedheadset]

To destroy your point, jonny, and to agree with enas, drivers see bad drivers all the time, but they don't form bad impressions of drivers as a group. That's because they belong to the same tribe, and cyclists don't.

I'll give you another example of a friend, who can get a good rant on about cyclists jumping red lights, but doesn't bat an eyelid at her husband who blithely admits to doing 90mph on the motorway.

The above and other posts of yours are all pretty much anecdotal, if you can clarify some of the hyperboles that you've posted then that would be greatly received.

The above post, the post on some drivers seeing cyclists as an out tribe without doing anything are the posts I'm on about.

 

[Arfcollins]

Feck me you must be fun in real life.

IT ISN'T TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY

Sorry, I couldn't detect your irony, which is why I said I wasn't sure how serious you were being. I can appreciate your joshing, but would you agree that much of the criticism on CC of drivers of certain cars is seriously intended?

PS I just checked with the wife and she says I must be fun in real life too.

 

[BentMikey]

The above and other posts of yours are all pretty much anecdotal, if you can clarify some of the hyperboles that you've posted then that would be greatly received.

The above post, the post on some drivers seeing cyclists as an out tribe without doing anything are the posts I'm on about.

Read the TRL, it's in there.

 

[Crackedheadset]

Sorry, I couldn't detect your irony, which is why I said I wasn't sure how serious you were being. I can appreciate your joshing, but would you agree that much of the criticism on CC of drivers of certain cars is seriously intended?

PS I just checked with the wife and she says I must be fun in real life too.

Yes I would agree.

On another note, I know a friend of a friend of an aunt of a cousin who saw some bad driving whilst at the wheel of her BMW. She shook her head and showed her disapointment at this driver. So maybe drivers do view other drivers badly when they do wrong - much like cyclists.

Which pretty much destroys any argument that there is any sort of tribal racism out on the roads.

 

[Crackedheadset]

Read the TRL, it's in there.

What TRL?

 

[jonny jeez]

To destroy your point, jonny, and to agree with enas, drivers see bad drivers all the time, but they don't form bad impressions of drivers as a group.
.

yes they do.

WVMan, BMW man, Merc Man, OAP, Foreign drivers, sunday drivers, women drivers, men drivers, young drivers, white, black, mexican the list is endless.

infact they use any way they can to compartmentalise them into "another" group ...or sub group...so my question stands...


why?

what happened for them to go to the trouble of seeing these people as different enough to put them in a group all of their own

 

[jonny jeez]

I know people who ride bicycles who rant and rage about cyclists (children cyclists as it happens) pootling gently down the pavement outside their house, and who even make formal complaints to the local school about it. But then don't bat an eyelid at the Corsa driving at 45+ mph down the same (30mph) road. Near a school, obviously.

It is a state of mind which no amount of 'legal cycling' will change.

not trying to change it...just tying to stop it forming in the first place. this is the key point that I'm failing to get across...or others are refusing to acknowledge.

its not about change...its about prevention.

good cycling stops bad impressions forming in the minds of those that have no impression ...yet

bad cycling does the opposite and the result is near on impossible to cure later (as we all agree on and which I dont debate)

 

[Crackedheadset]

yes they do.

WVMan, BMW man, Merc Man, OAP, Foreign drivers, sunday drivers, women drivers, men drivers, young drivers, white, black, mexican the list is endless.

infact they use any way they can to compartmentalise them into "another" group ...or sub group...so my question stands...


why?

what happened for them to go to the trouble of seeing these people as different enough to put them in a group all of their own

{Insert answer here to counter the above but Lord forbid should you denounce cyclists, it's not like we are not road users ourselves and should account for our actions as well for the greater good}

 

[400bhp]

yes they do.

WVMan, BMW man, Merc Man, OAP, Foreign drivers, sunday drivers, women drivers, men drivers, young drivers, white, black, mexican the list is endless.

infact they use any way they can to compartmentalise them into "another" group ...or sub group...so my question stands...


why?

what happened for them to go to the trouble of seeing these people as different enough to put them in a group all of their own

Humans have to make snap decisions based on what information is readily available. The generalisations are part of the way that help people make those decisions.

It's the way we work and as a whole is largely succesful.

 

[mickle]

LOL, really??? Carnage??? ****ing hell, with all due respect you sound like some cycling martyr and is exactly the kind of attitude that would raise the levels of hostility out on the roads rather then reduce.

Carnage. 3000+ folk per year dead in the UK. I don't know the figures for permanently maimed or seriously injured off the top of my head but if that's not carnage I don't what is. We wouldn't tolerate 3000 people dying in plane wrecks or terrorist attacks, but we accept this as a natural side effect of our desire to drive everywhere. How inured have you become that you think this is ok?