Blatant fibs from the cops.

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Mr Pig

New Member
Cab said:
I'll wager that a smaller proportion of cyclists than motorists knowingly break the law regularly.

Ok. Prove it?

Stating as 'fact' that the majority of cyclists are law abiding is pretty idiotic. Unless you know them all personally, and either watch all of them all the time or believe everything they say! I see cyclists on the pavement every day, I'd say that I see as many on the payment as I do on the road. And if they are so saintly, how did the police manage to fine two-hundred of them for jumping red lights in one month?

So, on balance, we're the most law abiding road users that there are.[/quote]

Maybe. Again though, how do you now? It's pure speculation isn't it? And going by some of the opinions on here hardly unbiased speculation. Rather than playing tit for tat about who's the worst shouldn't we just be accepting that neither are perfect and offering suggestions as to what can be done to improve this?
 
From the article above:

129 KSI in 2006 in London Alone due to cars jumping red lights


Automatic cameras at red lights were "tripped" 106,000 times in London over the past year - nearly 300 times each day.


In Trafalgar Square 117 road-users were spotted charging through the lights in a three-hour period.
 

Jaded

New Member
Mr Pig said:
Ok. Prove it?

Stating as 'fact' that the majority of cyclists are law abiding is pretty idiotic. Unless you know them all personally, and either watch all of them all the time or believe everything they say! I see cyclists on the pavement every day, I'd say that I see as many on the payment as I do on the road. And if they are so saintly, how did the police manage to fine two-hundred of them for jumping red lights in one month?

So the quote was 'the majority' i.e. anything over 50% and you see 'as many as' - i.e. around 50%

Given there is a huge bias in your statistical sampling (you) I'd say that you haven't made your case.
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
Mr Pig said:
Ok. Prove it?

Prove that the majority of motorists break the law?

You seriously want me to prove that to you?

Before I dig out the oft' quoted stats on this, please define what you would accept as proof. I ask because I have never encountered anyone, ever, who questioned that entirely proven statement. Really.

So what proof would you accept?

Stating as 'fact' that the majority of cyclists are law abiding is pretty idiotic. Unless you know them all personally, and either watch all of them all the time or believe everything they say! I see cyclists on the pavement every day, I'd say that I see as many on the payment as I do on the road. And if they are so saintly, how did the police manage to fine two-hundred of them for jumping red lights in one month?

You're saying that anyone who believes that cyclists are law abiding is wrong because your subjective impression, based on your own observations, is that they're wrong? Okay... I get where you're coming from now...

Go to a junction with lights. Wait where you're not obvious. Watch what happens when the lights change.

Or drive down the motorway at 70mph. Look in the other lanes once in a while.

How did the police fine two hundred cyclists for red light jumping? Simple enough, by ignoring motorists committing the same crime.

Maybe. Again though, how do you now? It's pure speculation isn't it? And going by some of the opinions on here hardly unbiased speculation. Rather than playing tit for tat about who's the worst shouldn't we just be accepting that neither are perfect and offering suggestions as to what can be done to improve this?

I'd rather clarify things first. Get a real sense of the scale of the problems we have on our roads. It clearly is not necessary to reiterate that no one is perfect, we all know that, what is needed is a sense of the scale of relative problems caused by different types of road user. Surely you agree?

Most motorists break speeding laws. Do you agree or disagree?

It is common practice for motorists to break the law at traffic lights by going through at amber when they could easily stop, or within a couple of seconds of the lights changing to red. So common in fact that it is considered normal. Do you disagree?

It is common practice for motorists to overtake cyclists too closely if cyclists do not choose a prominent road position. Do you disagree?
 

Mr Pig

New Member
User said:
The figures speak for themselves,

No they don't. Firstly, there are more cars on the road and more importantly they can be caught with cameras. Cyclists can only be caught jumping a red light by a cop standing there waiting to catch him. You can't compare offences registered by cameras with offences registered by hand.

I don't want anyone to prove anything. Who cares. Would it not be better to think about what can be done to improve the behaviour of 'both' sets of road users?
 

mr_cellophane

Legendary Member
Location
Essex
Cab said:
I'll wager that a smaller proportion of cyclists than motorists knowingly break the law regularly. Or, in other words, near as dammit every single motorist speeds and goes through amber or red lights when they could stop, whereas many cyclists don't RLJ and speeding laws don't apply to us anyway.

So, on balance, we're the most law abiding road users that there are.

Yes they do. And as 20 mph zones become more common so even slow cyclists like me could be caught out.
 
User said:
Speed limits do not apply to cyclists. Section 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, under which speed limits are regulated, states:

"Speeding offences generally.

89. (1) A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."

The legislation refers only to motor vehicles - not to cyclists, horse riders or carriages. Therefore, speed limits apply only to motor vehicles.

Reggers is quite right. There is an obscure offence of "pedalling furiously" but no speed limits as such.
 

swee'pea99

Legendary Member
That's fantastic! I just love the idea of an offense of "pedalling furiously". That's made my day.

In a slightly more serious vein, I do find it rather endearing, all these people who seem to feel that if only we all obeyed the law all the time like good little chermans, people wouldn't hate cyclists. People who hate us don't hate us because we break the law. They hate us because we're fit and fast and they're fat and frustrated. They hate us because we 'queue jump', streaming past them as they fume in their little stationary tin boxes. They hate us because we're free and they're imprisoned. If we all obeyed the law like good little chermans, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. They'd still hate us. Do you really believe otherwise?

Now I'm off to do some furious pedalling.
 

PBancroft

Senior Member
Location
Winchester
swee said:
Just to clarify, I didn't say people wouldn't hate cyclists who obey the law, but rather that the Police wouldn't pull you over (or at least be less likely to).

I am well aware that there are people in the world who will hate cyclists because we are slower than Jeremy Clarkson strapped to a Cheetah.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
[quote name='swee'pea99']
In a slightly more serious vein, I do find it rather endearing, all these people who seem to feel that if only we all obeyed the law all the time like good little chermans, people wouldn't hate cyclists. People who hate us don't hate us because we break the law. They hate us because we're fit and fast and they're fat and frustrated. They hate us because we 'queue jump', streaming past them as they fume in their little stationary tin boxes. They hate us because we're free and they're imprisoned. If we all obeyed the law like good little chermans, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. They'd still hate us. Do you really believe otherwise?

[/quote]

I think only a small minority of people actively "hate" cyclists - more peolple would probably say that they found them annoying. Confronting slower moving traffic often makes people inconsiderate and irrational.
 

GrahamG

Guru
Location
Bristol
zimzum42 said:
In the same period, how many drivers were done for drink driving and speeding etc...

Personally, I don't give a shoot if a driver goes into an ASL, I'll just sticky myself in front of him. I'd rather the police catch people with no MOT or insurance, speeder, drinkers, etc etc, rather than waste time doing them for going in ASLs just to make cyclists feel their being fair......

Good post - take a wider view of things.
 
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