Bored cops bully kids

[Vapin' Joe]

The hosts parents want their bumps feeling, leaving an unsupervised teenage party take place in your own home is madness. And if I were the OP I'd see the funny side and just get over it.

 

[Arrowfoot]

I heartily +1 @buggi post above and will try to do my best not to repeat it.

A couple of points though...

I can think of a scenario where seven officers turning up could be entirely possible. Most city forces (you said it was a city) put out extra officers for the 'night time economy', that are mostly just there for the drink fueled violence. They work from vans with (traditionally) one sergeant and seven PCs. We have to ask these vans to assist us every weekend now with jobs that aren't really in their remit, but we've run out of units. This could be a plausible and likely scenario for me of seven officers turning up.

You don't know what the call to the police was. I'll give you a cast iron guarantee that there was a call. Quite a common one we get regarding noisy parties is "There's loads of shooting and it sounds like someone is being killed". When we get a report like that, even when it's likely to be an over exaggeration, we are going in to check, and yes, every room.

I don't want to go much further on that point though, as I am guessing and hypothesising the whole thing. While some may be happy to give certainties about what the police could or couldn't have done in your situation, I'm
not overly happy to without the whole picture.

Lastly, and let me make this really, really clear. If your daughter was at an address where 15 and 16 year olds were knowingly left alone, knowing there would be alcohol and suspecting there would be drugs, then a visit from the police is not surprising at all, and perhaps the view from my ivory towers is distant, but I'm shocked you allowed her to be there knowing those facts.

A room to room search with out an adult present and no one knows why it was searched. Thats not kosher by any account. If the call was a hoax claiming that danger was imminent then they would have told the kids and asked questions to clarify. Drugs and alcohol info would not lead to a room to room search of a house with no prior history.

If it was the case, people would making all sorts of hoax calls and the Police will be conducting searches by the hour.

 

[CopperCyclist]

"

A room to room search with out an adult present and no one knows why it was searched. Thats not kosher by any account. If the call was a hoax claiming that danger was imminent then they would have told the kids and asked questions to clarify. Drugs and alcohol info would not lead to a room to room search of a house with no prior history.

If it was the case, people would making all sorts of hoax calls and the Police will be conducting searches by the hour.

"Sounds like sometimes being killed in there". Grounds enough for a Section 17 search. Other scenarios exist.

I concede it's entirely possible that questions could have been asked to lead to a negation of this need at the scene, but without being able to have an active account from all parties, I'm not willing to further decide what was or wasn't appropriate.

It is entirely possible that seven officers turning up at that party, walking in and conducting a room to room search was entirely legal.

It is entirely possible that seven officers turning up at that party, walking in and conducting a room to room search was entirely illegal.

It's also entirely possible it never happened that way at all.

 

[Arrowfoot]

[QUOTE 3642394, member: 45"]What if the children had killed the supervising adults?[/QUOTE]

They would not have left would they?

 

[Arrowfoot]

[QUOTE 3642408, member: 45"]Maybe they should have searched harder.[/QUOTE]
You could be right. I recall that poor girl that was murdered by the grandmother's lover. A second more intense search a few days later uncovered the body.

 

[PK99]

15/16 year old's, alcohol with no parent in the house

2 sides to every story....

When we had a 15/16 party with alcohol. we had a 3/4 of our friends around for drinks in another room and we ran a "bar". Which we closed periodically and were able to keep an eye on how much individuals were drinking plus we banned private drinks ie spirits.

I would NOT have allowed a party as desribed in the OP and neither did any of the parents in my socail group. we would have considered it irresponsible.

 

[Brains]

As a serial Gatecrasher of parties (as in at least two, EVERY weekend) for much of my late teens, I can relate quite a few very similar stories.
Basically a fairly harmless, if noisy, teenage party get busted by a large number of police who come in heavy handed and close the party down.

I've been arrested 3 times at these parties, on the charge sheet would have read 'lippy know it all teenager' if they had bothered to fill in a change sheet.

Yes I've seen the 'bookcase' fall over issue (actually in my case it was a grand piano, but the effect is the same), I've seen the pillow fight with the police (feathers all over the house and road), I've seen the drugs bust (none found), I've seen the fire brigade called (as police were not interested). and many many more

So I'm afraid this sort of problem is all part of growing up, hopefully it will be a one off case, it's quite shocking the first time, but if she attends a lot more parties, she will see it a few more times.

 

[screenman]

We brought up 3 boys, working on the principle they were guilty until proven innocent seemed to keep them out of trouble, I think.

 

[Levo-Lon]

^^^What he said, my parents never knew anything unless the police called or irate parents ..lol happy days

 

[crazyjoe101]

I'd raise the matter with the local Superintendent. They're not allowed to search premises without a warrant or the permission of the owner, who wasn't there.

If the police have reason to believe there is a danger of loss of 'life or limb' or serious loss of property then they may enter the premesis under section 17 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, if I recall correctly.

 

[winjim]

We brought up 3 boys, working on the principle they were guilty until proven innocent seemed to keep them out of trouble, I think.

I was once found guilty of [a thing] by my mum when in fact I had not done it and the thought had never even crossed my mind. This led to me wondering what [the thing] was like and thinking that I might as well do [the thing] since I had already been blamed for it. So, not an approach I would advocate.

 

[swee'pea99]

I heartily +1 @buggi post above and will try to do my best not to repeat it.

A couple of points though...

I can think of a scenario where seven officers turning up could be entirely possible. Most city forces (you said it was a city) put out extra officers for the 'night time economy', that are mostly just there for the drink fueled violence. They work from vans with (traditionally) one sergeant and seven PCs. We have to ask these vans to assist us every weekend now with jobs that aren't really in their remit, but we've run out of units. This could be a plausible and likely scenario for me of seven officers turning up.

You don't know what the call to the police was. I'll give you a cast iron guarantee that there was a call. Quite a common one we get regarding noisy parties is "There's loads of shooting and it sounds like someone is being killed". When we get a report like that, even when it's likely to be an over exaggeration, we are going in to check, and yes, every room.

I don't want to go much further on that point though, as I am guessing and hypothesising the whole thing. While some may be happy to give certainties about what the police could or couldn't have done in your situation, I'm
not overly happy to without the whole picture.

Lastly, and let me make this really, really clear. If your daughter was at an address where 15 and 16 year olds were knowingly left alone, knowing there would be alcohol and suspecting there would be drugs, then a visit from the police is not surprising at all, and perhaps the view from my ivory towers is distant, but I'm shocked you allowed her to be there knowing those facts.

Ok, so we're agreed it's likely that seven cops did turn up.

No 'cast iron guarantee' is needed, 'A call' is not in dispute. The story was, a neighbour rang up talking about drugs and violence.

The first cop at the door, once it was answered by a 16 year old girl dressed as a bunny rabbit and in no obvious distres other than that caused by the sudden and unexpected arrival of a mob of police, could have seen very quickly that nothing dangerous or sinister was in progress. No shooting, no screaming, no signs of anything untoward - just one frightened teenager, and music playing in the background. At that point, the 'policing' thing to have done would have been to ask if everything's ok, point out the importance of not causing a nuisance, and leave. What actually happened was a heavy-handed fishing expedition in search of drugs.

Whether I like it or not, my 16 year old daughter lives in a community where drinking is pretty much universal, and the use of cannabis - tho' very far from universal - is widespread. Whether or not I or any other adult thinks this is a good thing is beside the point. It is the case. Given that she is on the cusp of becoming an adult, I take it as read that she will at least experiment with such things. The best I can hope to do is help minimise the riskiness of how she does it. For what it's worth, I didn't know there were to be no parents even on hand at this party, and I wasn't thrilled when I found out. But that in no way excuses what took place..

You may think that simple prohibition is the only answer. I can assure you that any such approach is doomed to failure. This is not Nether Glossop,1954. This is North London in the early 21st century, and this, like it or not, is how things are. My personal take on it is that while I'd prefer her to wait before wading into the murky waters of booze & drugs, I live in the real world. The best I can realistically do is use my moral influence as best I can and hope she will go through her 'rebellious bit' in the company of decent and supportive friends who wish her well.

Lastly, and let me make this very very clear: whatever the call, and even if there was fruit-flavoured cider and even if there was a spliff or two involved, the actions of the police on this occasion were nothing to do with protecting people or property: they were bullying, pure and simple. And the police have no business bullying people

 

[screenman]

I was once found guilty of [a thing] by my mum when in fact I had not done it and the thought had never even crossed my mind. This led to me wondering what [the thing] was like and thinking that I might as well do [the thing] since I had already been blamed for it. So, not an approach I would advocate.

The youngest is now 26 the eldest 41, so I give them a little more leeway now.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

You could be right. I recall that poor girl that was murdered by the grandmother's lover. A second more intense search a few days later uncovered the body.

Can you remember the names?

 

[Brains]

So there was alcohol and possibly, by your own admission, drugs involved and they were all 15 and 16... And you can't see a problem? Wow

Seriously did you go to parties aged 15-16 ?
I lived in London (term time) and Cornwall (holidays) we went to parties every weekend
There was ALWAYS alcohol involved (often supplied by the parents)
And (mostly home grown) cannabis was far from unheard of.

One of my claims to fame is I learnt how to drink Tequila Slammers (Tequila, Worm, Lemon, Salt etc.) from the man that made Roobarb & Custard
I would have been about 15 !!
I don't remember my parents thinking it was an issue at the time, and I know i was not the youngest one there