Boris says he'll....

[LLB]

Motorcycles are amongst the most vulnerable users on the roads. It has worked well in Bristol for the last 20 odd years, why not in London ?

 

[Tynan]

because of the speed they can be traveling at

main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a left hand bend

second main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a right hand bend

I forget the rest but another vehicle being involved doesn't appear until fourth or fifth

stats are very dodgy most of the time

look at all the motorbike wrecks on youtube, they usually do it all on their own

I rode a scooter to commute for five odd years, I don't see motorcycles as any more vulnerable than cyclists, they're well lit, fast, plenty of acceleration and can wear as much protective clothing as they chose to

 

[domtyler]

because of the speed they can be traveling at

main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a left hand bend

second main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a right hand bend

I forget the rest but another vehicle being involved doesn't appear until fourth or fifth

stats are very dodgy most of the time

look at all the motorbike wrecks on youtube, they usually do it all on their own

I rode a scooter to commute for five odd years, I don't see motorcycles as any more vulnerable than cyclists, they're well lit, fast, plenty of acceleration and can wear as much protective clothing as they chose to

It's not a matter of opinion, the stats say it all. Motorbikes are ****ing dangerous.

 

[Tynan]

?

did I say anything otherwise? or indeed at all

my only point was they do it to themselves to a large extent

 

[BentMikey]

I believe the same goes for cyclists, we crash out most of the time without any help from anyone else.

Once you look at motor vehicle vs cyclist incidents, then it seems the cyclist is only to blame in some 17% of cases.

 

[Tynan]

that's my point, the bus lane is only an argument when it removes you from the traffic flow

accidents that don't involve other vehicles aren't relevant

 

[LLB]

I've seen some fairly spectacular cycling accidents as well as cars on Youtube, so this doesn't really hold water.

I think you are trying to oversimplify the motorcycle argument, and would be interested to see where your info comes from ?

because of the speed they can be traveling at

main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a left hand bend

second main cause of a motorbike accident? losing it on a right hand bend

I forget the rest but another vehicle being involved doesn't appear until fourth or fifth

stats are very dodgy most of the time

look at all the motorbike wrecks on youtube, they usually do it all on their own

I rode a scooter to commute for five odd years, I don't see motorcycles as any more vulnerable than cyclists, they're well lit, fast, plenty of acceleration and can wear as much protective clothing as they chose to

 

[LLB]

Take a look at page 28/29 of this report which looks into causation.

The losing it on bends doesn't apply to urban riding, but pleasure riding which indicates lack of experience/local knowledge of the road or both.

Scoots come up highest for rear end shunts which is what happens when the yare forced into the traffic in towns

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme5/indepthstudyofmotorcycleacc.pdf

 

[Tynan]

my only suggestion regarding losing it was that they might be part of the stats and thus the stats were highly dodgy

I can dig them up you want to but I'm seen them quoted time and again

I was offering the motorcycle accident cause only in reply to the suggestion that motorcycles are very vulnerable and accident prone, I was suggesting that at least to some degree the nature of motorcyclists and motorcycles make them unsafe

and I heartedly agree that scooters ad even motorcycles in urban traffic are completely different matters to overall motorbike riding, that was my point

as for simplifying, it's the best thing done on here wouldn't you say?

 

[LLB]

my only suggestion regarding losing it was that they might be part of the stats and thus the stats were highly dodgy

I can dig them up you want to but I'm seen them quoted time and again

I was offering the motorcycle accident cause only in reply to the suggestion that motorcycles are very vulnerable and accident prone, I was suggesting that at least to some degree the nature of motorcyclists and motorcycles make them unsafe

and I heartedly agree that scooters ad even motorcycles in urban traffic are completely different matters to overall motorbike riding, that was my point

as for simplifying, it's the best thing done on here wouldn't you say?

If the scoots are being disproportionately rear ended in the stats, then this indicates that this is happening in urban traffic which is what people buy them for. This is why they would benefit from the relative safety of the bus lanes.

 

[Tynan]

the OP is about motorcycles and scooters, not just scooters

what if the scooters being rear ended is replaced or worse by scooters knocking cyclists off?

learners on scooters have always been beaten only by pizza delivery types as a hazard

 

[Maz]

Riding back from work yesterday, there was a learner scooter rider in front of me in the cycle lane, making progress in the stationary traffic. Are they allowed in there?

 

[LLB]

That's not really an argument though is it? You're in a bus lane on your moped and a car pulls into it to turn left/pull over/into a drive. You ride into it.

Is there any separation in the stats that you quote between this and the scooter in the general flow?

the rear ending is other vehicles running into the back of scoots, not the other way around

 

[jmaccyd]

Never understood why cabs are allowed to use them as they are possibly the most singularly elitist form of transport available

Elitist - moir?

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

i really don't like the idea of motorbikes in bus lanes.

Imagine the arguments about where cyclists are supposed to ride in the lane! Scooterers riding like maniacs, balls out the whole time, and motorbikes too.

The number of times that scooters will pass within inches, its not just the bad ones standing out, its most scooterers think that 2inches is a reasonable gap to leave.

Motorbikes are better, as somehow the act of sitting on/in a scooter removes the part of the brain that senses danger, but bikers tend to be more aware and give proper room.