Bottlecage mounts

[MrJamie]

One of the bottlecage bolts on my Giant was tight to undo and the fitting it screws into started moving, I did manage to get it out after a couple of hours, some assistance, WD40, penetrating oil and a little brute force etc etc. However now im not really sure what to do with it now?

I would much rather do it myself than go to a LBS if possible, but im unsure of the names of the tools involved. It appears to be one of the crimped on ones as far as I can tell. Obviously the laziest solution would be just to mount the cage to it and just hope I never have to remove it

 

[sidevalve]

If you mean the brazed in insert that the bolt screws into has come loose in the frame then you have a problem. How much of a problem depends on how loose, what type of tube and wether the insert has simply started to turn in the frame or torn the metal, if any of these are the case I would recommend the bike shop.. If you mean just the thread has been damaged then the problem is much less. You then have two options 1 - just run a 5mm tap through the hole to clean up the threads [these bolts are usually M5] 2 - if the thread is totally gone what you need do is drill it out [a 5mm drill I think but others may correct me] and run a 6mm tap into the hole [you may have to open out the hole in the bottle cage to suit]. Sets of metric taps and dies are [for one off use] only a few pounds from most market tool stalls. It's not difficult, just take a little care.
Some bottle cages may use M6 bolts, if so just up everything by 1mm.

 

[MrJamie]

If you mean the brazed in insert that the bolt screws into has come loose in the frame then you have a problem. How much of a problem depends on how loose, what type of tube and wether the insert has simply started to turn in the frame or torn the metal, if any of these are the case I would recommend the bike shop.. If you mean just the thread has been damaged then the problem is much less. You then have two options 1 - just run a 5mm tap through the hole to clean up the threads [these bolts are usually M5] 2 - if the thread is totally gone what you need do is drill it out [a 5mm drill I think but others may correct me] and run a 6mm tap into the hole [you may have to open out the hole in the bottle cage to suit]. Sets of metric taps and dies are [for one off use] only a few pounds from most market tool stalls. It's not difficult, just take a little care.
Some bottle cages may use M6 bolts, if so just up everything by 1mm.

Thanks for the reply and apologies for the awful use of terminology on my part. From looking at http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/water-bottle-fittings i think it would be one of those inserts crimped into the frame. When i tried unscrewing the bolts, the top one was very stiff but came out fine, the lower one came out part way and then the insert started turning with it. I had to hold the insert inplace hard against the frame while someone else unscrewed the bolt from the insert. The insert turns in the frame now, although the thread seems fine, I put a new M5 bolt in part way and then unscrewed it (while holding the insert in place).

Im wondering what it takes to remove/replace the insert, if i could do it myself or how much of a job it might be at LBS. Im even tempted just to screw the new cage on and leave it there forever, its not really something that I want to spend much money on

 

[Drago]

On most alloy frames the threaded inserts are crimped, pressed or sometimes bonded inside a hole on the frame, sI if it's alloy theyres no real issue with and halfway decent LBS fixing it in 20 minutes.

If you can reinsert the bolt and hold the side of the threaded insert with the blade of a flat screwdriver sobi doesn't turn while you do the bolt up. With luck as the bolt is tightened the threaded portion deeper inside the frame will be pressed against the inside face of the frame tube as its tightened and leave your bottle cafe secure.

 

[sidevalve]

Drago is spot on if the inset is just turning in the frame. One thing you could try is a little carefully applied epoxy adhesive around the insert. You will have to scrape a tiny ring of paint away but it will be covered by the cage. Once in place as Drago says the tension of the screw should hold everything in place.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

One of the bottlecage bolts on my Giant was tight to undo and the fitting it screws into started moving, I did manage to get it out after a couple of hours, some assistance, WD40, penetrating oil and a little brute force etc etc. However now im not really sure what to do with it now?

I would much rather do it myself than go to a LBS if possible, but im unsure of the names of the tools involved. It appears to be one of the crimped on ones as far as I can tell. Obviously the laziest solution would be just to mount the cage to it and just hope I never have to remove it

I would recommend you taking it to a trusted LBS, since there is a risk of damaging the frame. But with care this works.

 

[MrJamie]

Thanks all for the replies, ill have another proper read through in the morning

On most alloy frames the threaded inserts are crimped, pressed or sometimes bonded inside a hole on the frame, sI if it's alloy theyres no real issue with and halfway decent LBS fixing it in 20 minutes.

If you can reinsert the bolt and hold the side of the threaded insert with the blade of a flat screwdriver sobi doesn't turn while you do the bolt up. With luck as the bolt is tightened the threaded portion deeper inside the frame will be pressed against the inside face of the frame tube as its tightened and leave your bottle cafe secure.

Sounds like it might need to make its first trip to a LBS, I was quite proud of not having to take it to one so far. Any idea what kind of price range it might be to fix rather than me trying some dodgy Homer Simpson style DIY? Its an aluminium frame.

Should tighting a bolt all the way in, against the insert (with no cage) effectively crimp the insert?

As a side-note, I found it interesting that the other 3 bolts on the (2 year old) Giant were quite stiff to remove from their inserts as were the new ones to go in, while the surface-rusted bolts on my 18 year old Raleigh came out and in very smoothly - that appears to have some kind of nut welded to the steel downtube rather than inserts.

 

[MrJamie]

So I decided to tackle it today, the insert was loose enough i could rotate it with a finger and it needed holding in place to screw a bolt in/out of it. Thanks to your posts I had some idea of options and knew what a "rivnut" was so could look at the usual crimping method.

In order to crimp the rivnut without a proper tool, i found a 5mm bolt and nut, screwed the nut 3/4 of the way onto the bolt, screwed the bolt about 2cm into the rivnut, then came the tricky part. Holding the bolt in place with a ring spanner, i tightened the nut into the rivnut with a normal spanner although the rivnut then started moving, so with my 3rd hand (borrowed from my assistant) i used the tip of needlenose pliers to hold the edge of the rivnut in place while tightening the nut crimped it. I tightened it until it took the thread off the bolt twice, removed and now its firmly in place, i can screw a bolt in and out with no rotation at all. Ive also added a little superglue around the edge incase that helps.

The marks on the frame (by the G) were done removing the seized bolt yesterday. The rivnut looks a silvery mangled mess, but it seems to work and its all out of sight anyway. Im going to put a little grease on the thread to hopefully help avoid it seizing again in future Thanks all for help, maybe this will be vaguely of help to someone in future

 

[02GF74]

^^^ i was going to suggest you try "re-crimping" the rivnut first - you could have put a washer between the nut and rivnut to prevent the mangling its head but then how would you have stopped it spinning?

 

[PpPete]

Not my idea, but you can use a Q/R front hub as a make shift riv-nut tool. The thread on the Q/R is (usually) just right, and the body of the hub acts as big washer. You will need addtional washers to pack it a bit further and give a bearing surface, and needle nose pliers to hold the outer portion of the rivnut from turning while you thread it on (assuming you are tightening the crimp on an existing one).
Just thread it on with QR lever open, and when you are ready close the lever.