Bottom Bracket standards

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Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
There is such s proliferation of bearing types on the market now and new ones are emerging all the time. This article might be useful to those of you who want to replace BB bearings or cranks. Also includes tables of bearing sizes and compatibility. There's also a section on help to eliminate creaking.
Maybe this could be a sticky?

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/bottom-bracket-crank-axles-bearings-compatibility/
 
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subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
I am going to lose a few hours later reading that :smile:
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
I sleeved a PF30 down to ISO this evening. Not the easiest job - it's like pushing wet spaghetti until you get to the last 10mm. If you ever do this, don't apply the Loctite until the last possible moment. I am so glad I took this precaution.
 
I sleeved a PF30 down to ISO this evening. Not the easiest job - it's like pushing wet spaghetti until you get to the last 10mm. If you ever do this, don't apply the Loctite until the last possible moment. I am so glad I took this precaution.
I converted the only PF30d / self extractor FSA cranked bike I had to a HT2, using a wheels manufacturing PF30 to external cup threaded HT2 converter, last year. It’s the best mod I made to that bike. I really don’t like PF30s.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
I used the FSA adaptor. It's an interference fit and one of the flanges that actually contacts the shell has to be pushed all the way through. And you can't grease the shell first as it's going to be Loctited. Not that easy.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
There is such s proliferation of bearing types on the market now and new ones are emerging all the time. This article might be useful to those of you who want to replace BB bearings or cranks.
The proliferation of Bottom bracket standards . . . are very confusing,
Since this has been made a 'sticky' - such special treatment (@Pat "5mph" ) for one element of our bicycles after only a few hours posting! The article is good on description and illustration but doesn't much touch on the design issues and the pros and cons of the various options. I've searched back to the useful posts made by @Yellow Saddle (no longer OTP) posted in May 2016, on bottom bracket design and their strengths and flaws, and share them.
The BB has a very chequered history and I'll quickly recap.
First we had cotter pin. Cotters were problematic but were eventually replaced by the square taper, which was brilliant. It allowed lightweight aluminium cranks to be securely fastened to steel crank spindles without any problems of precession and lash, both problems with the cotter. (Note that I'm referring to a British cotter, not American cotter).
Then the weight weenies came around and questioned the solid BB axle and asked for something to be make lighter. Shimano responded with the Octalink BB. It fitted into existing BSA BB shells and thus didn't require a frame redesign. However, the enlarged axle required smaller bearings so that the assembly could fit into the limited space inside the BB shell. This reduced the bearing durability.
He went on: "Further, the advent of MTBing meant that people now jumped their bikes whilst standing on the cranks one foot forward, one 180degrees to the back. This put huge strain on the axle and the short Octalink spines could not provide enough stiffness and the flex inside the splines caused the crank bolt to unscrew on the one crank pointing backwards. Visualise this is the bolt head moving backwards with the flexing inside the crank eye but not returning with the backlash. This caused the shallow splines to strip. In addition to that problem, the splines were blind and assembly had to be very accurate, otherwise the spindle peeled pieces of spline and ruined the spline as the bolt is tightened. Then Shimano invented Octalink II without acknowledging the mistakes of what was not suddenly Octalilnk I. Octalink II solved the lash problem but not the bearing problem. Shimano even attempted to use roller bearings in its high-end Octalink cranks but these failed prematurely as well since roller bearings don't work well in grease where the grease is pushed away from the bearing and not returned as with a ball bearing.
"Then a repeat of the Betamax vs VHS story started. Shimano refused to license Octalink (or the Americans refused to buy a license) and a consortium of American companies then reverse engineered their own version of Octalilnk, called the ISIS spline. It had not 8 as in Shimano, but 9 splines and a different spline shape. This all to avoid patent licence fees. Octalink, Octalink I, Octalink II and ISIS is all rubbish.
"Shimano then decided that it will re-invent the BB again and came up with Hollowtech. This was a two-piece crank with a 24mm spindle and an externally mounted pair of bearings. The crank press-fit into the bearings, separated by a plastic spacer between crank and bearing race. The idea was to save weight, provide a stiff spindle by going oversize and create larger bearings but place them outside of the still-standard BB shell. Unfortunately the spindle was not stiff enough and the left hand bearing now fails prematurely because the spindle flexes on the left. Remember that torque is only transmitted through the spindle from the left crank, not the right. For a long time people through their left BB cup failed because a bike is laid down on its left side and water inside the BB was damaging the left bearing. However, it was the flexing spindle that pulls the sensitive deep groove bearing to run against the sides of its grooves and bind. Also astonishingly, the bearing balls were still too small for the job. Although the bearing diameter increased, the balls stayed small and they packed more of them in rather than bulk up the assembly a bit.

"A BB redesign was called for and national pride meddled with good design. Cannondale, Bullseye and some other American companies then perpetrated BB30. It had a large (30mm) spindle to prevent some of the flexing found in Hollowtech and to supposedly save the customer maintenance cost, fitted two standard industrial deep groove bearings directly into a redesigned oversized shell. This was a big mistake, especially in hindsight when frames were made from carbon. The BB shell on an aluminium bike is a fragile, highly stressed component. It is a little thin-shell transverse tube with four major welds connecting it to the top tube, seat tube and two chainstays. This welding distorts the shell. This happened with old BBs as well but now with BB30, the bearing was fitted directly into the shell by press-fit. Tolerances had to be very high if you don't want the bearing to bind because of out-of-roundness of the shell and, simultaneously you want the bearing to fit tight enough into the aluminium shell to not move and fret during hard pedaling. This is an impossible call. These bearings all move and creak. The Japanese had some wisdom in using a screw-in system and sticking with it. Further, the bearings in BB30 are not far enough outboard to prevent the aluminium crank spindle to not flex and cause lateral loading of the bearing. That's why it fails so quickly.
BB30 became an even worse idea when frames turned to carbon. Now the BB shell was too soft to accept a steel bearing directly and, cannot be machined even close enough to good enough tolerance in anyway. Out came another shell redesign and we got BB30 Pressfit. This called for the bearing to be housed in a plastic cup which is then pressed into the imperfect frame aperture. They creak like hell and wear the shell out in an oval shape. They are terrible.

"And that's where we are today. Weight weenies, poor engineering and national pride gave us a system that is worse than the 50 year old (guessing here) square taper. No-one admits it, few mechanics understand it and they're all looking for solutions such as warranty replacements, bearing glue and hope.

"The answer will only be found once we have a new design. Don't think BB-Right provides it either."
Incidentally @Yellow Saddle - are you aware of an alternative, good bottom bracket that could replace a BB30 or does the shell design make it inevitable that anything that would fit would just be someone else's equally poor version of the same sort of design?
Also, my other bike is fitted with one of these - are you familiar with these and if so where would they fit among your descriptions of modern BB design - I'm wondering if this is a bit of a poor man's Hollowtech but with a threaded rather than press-fit shell?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-bb-4000-omega-drive-mega-exo-bb/rp-prod58234
I know I tried to upgrade it to a Hope BB recently but they don't manufacture anything that would fit the spindle that a FSA Mega-Exo 4000 takes.
That Mega Exo is one of the worst there is. Firstly, the spindle is 19mm. Compare that to Shimano's 24mm that's already flexing on the left. Then, it uses the problematic outboard bearing design. However, if you are prepared to sacrifice the crank, you can replace that BB with a standard square taper or even a Shimano Hollowtech (24mm).

If I were you I would cut my losses on the FSA Mega-Thing crank and go 24mm.

The best treatment you can give your BB30 is a converter that's glued inside the BB-shell. this is a sturdy aluminium sleeve that converts it from BB30 to Hollowtech (24mm). Then you can use any of the 24mm cranks such as Campagnolo or Shimano or many of the other after-market models. This conversion is easy, cheap and really effective.

Something I didn't mention in my rant above is another one of the faults of external bearing BBs such as Shimano Hollowtech, SRAM GXP or many of the other similar designs. With the bearing cups now sitting outboard instead of inside the BB shell, they don't have the support of an internal sleeve. If you look at a square taper BB you'll see that there's a spindle inside two bearings (sometimes three as with Campagnolo) inside a steel sleeve. This sleeve adds extra strength to the assembly and any rocking of the crank now requires the entire frame to rock side-to-side. With outboard bearings the two cups rock independently of each other. Evidence of this movement is visible in the grey aluminium rouge that's evident on the thread when you remove the BB and audible through creaks and groans that quickly develop in the BB cups.

Having two individual cups press-fit into a carbon frame is possibly the worst of the worst. Someone should be sent to engineering hell.

Edit: If you want to be rally stupid you use all the poor design features in one design. Enter SRAM GXP. a 19mm spindle (perhaps 20mm?) on the left side and 24mm on the right. If anything, that should have been reversed. 300km on a GXP BB is not uncommon.
These quotes are taken from this thread:
Cannondale-bb30-bottom-bracket
 
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cyberknight

As long as I breathe, I attack.
Can't say I had problems with pf30 but that's on the summer bike so it is shielded from water etc.Had a ht2 axle snap on the left side currently have a fsa powerspline on the commuter which I might get 2k miles out of so I plan to replace that at some point with square taper.
 
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