Boundary disputes (property, not cricket)

[siadwell]

Our neighbours at home sold about a year ago to someone who is doing up the property before they move in next month. Part of the work has been to demolish an existing brick utility room that came up to the boundary of our land, and then build an extension using the original footprint of the utility room but extending its length by about the same again so that the wall on our boundary will extend about two metres beyond the back of their house.

The builder have put in the foundations and built blockwork up to floor level. This entailed removing fences and part of our patio in the area they are working so that the original boundary has been obilterated. However, I have taken plenty of photos throughout the process.

It has become obvious to us that the rear of their extension now protrudes into our garden by about 6 inches. This is probably due to the architect assuming the boundary was a straight line, when it is apparently not.

I've managed to contact the owner of the property and he's going to come and look at it with us. My wife and I are thinking that at the very least we will want a legal document stating that the wall of the extension does not indicate the boundary for the rest of the property.

It's a bit hard to convey the details in a couple of paragraphs, but I wondered whether any fellow CCers have had similar experiences and can offer wise words, cautionary tales etc.?

 

[rsvdaz]

did they serve a party wall notice on you?

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/partywall

 

[chillyuk]

Try and resolve the issue amicably. Difficult with boundary disputes I know, and the lawyers are already rubbing their hands together in anticipation of a nice windfall.

 

[Red Light]

Ah, boundary disputes. Get it settled amicably and if you don't mind the slight overlap onto your ground get them to agree either to rent the land or buy it off you. That way its clear who owns what. Trying to determine a boundary to within 6" from available plans is going to be pretty tough. Having it properly recorded and not relying on a box of photos somewhere in the attic, if anyone remembers them in the first place and what they are about. You could also have difficulty now proving that it is over the boundary but if you can and its important to you, its within your rights to ask for the wall to be taken down and rebuilt inside their boundary.

I have something similar with a private right of way which a neighbour has blocked but provided a slightly diverted route on their land. I don't particularly mind the diversion but am getting them to draw up an agreement for a new right of way over their land. Otherwise sometime in the future someone could dispute our right of way on their land.

 

[siadwell]

did they serve a party wall notice on you?

http://www.communiti...lding/partywall

Yes they did, but only after I pointed out to them that they needed to! The owner phoned me up to tell me that the builders would be starting work (after a long delay) in a couple of days' time. I told him we'd better get something in writing, so he sent us a letter outlining dates and we responded in the affirmative.

We tried to be helpful and neighbourly by not insisting on a survey and award, and don't we regret it now!

 

[Hacienda71]

If you can as said above try to remain amicable. One of the surveyors at my practice undertook a boundary dispute report for an insurance company, the parties involved had lost all sense of objectivity, accusations flying around of criminal damage etc One of the parties accused the surveyor working for me of impartiality and formally complained to me about it. I went through a formal procedure for a complaint including offer of referralto a third party and concluded the surveyor had done nothinbg wrong and acted in a proper manner. We now don't touch boundary disputes on domestic properties due to the level animosity involved.

 

[Hacienda71]

If you had a party wall notice served is there a surveyor appointed to act impartialy for both sides?

 

[rsvdaz]

If you had a party wall notice served is there a surveyor appointed to act impartialy for both sides?

only if one of the parties disputes the notice

 

[siadwell]

[QUOTE 1488733"]
The Screwfix forum is full of knowledgeable builders who can advise.
[/quote]

Next door's builder "advised" that as he was building according to the plan, the remaining boundary fence must have moved!

I did find a spot-on piece of advice in there (with hindsight), to get everything measured and documented, along with rights of access etc. We were told the builders would need to "occasionally" work from our land, but they've baricaded off our side access for H&S reasons and for 6 weeks we've had no access to the back garden except through the house (I've had to carry the mower through to cut the front lawn!) whilst they've used our path as their primary access to site. That's made us a bit miffed as well...

 

[porteous]

Next door's builder "advised" that as he was building according to the plan, the remaining boundary fence must have moved!

I did find a spot-on piece of advice in there (with hindsight), to get everything measured and documented, along with rights of access etc. We were told the builders would need to "occasionally" work from our land, but they've baricaded off our side access for H&S reasons and for 6 weeks we've had no access to the back garden except through the house (I've had to carry the mower through to cut the front lawn!) whilst they've used our path as their primary access to site. That's made us a bit miffed as well...

 

[porteous]

The definitive map held by the Land Registry may be helpful. Get your mortgage holder to let you see the deeds, these should also be useful in showing boundries. If the deeds and the LR maps agree it's a no brainer.

I believe the builder has no right in law to deny you use of your own property, it is a question of "reasonable" access to do the work .

I agree that you don't want to go to law unless you have to, but it might be as well to take advice from a solicitor (First visit is usually free).

 

[Red Light]

The definitive map held by the Land Registry may be helpful. Get your mortgage holder to let you see the deeds, these should also be useful in showing boundries. If the deeds and the LR maps agree it's a no brainer.

Waste of time. Neither will be of a big enough scale to resolve down to the 6" encroachment the OP is talking about.

 

[Hacienda71]

Waste of time. Neither will be of a big enough scale to resolve down to the 6" encroachment the OP is talking about.

Yep the land registry plan is likely to be a 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS extract were a foot is a fraction of a mm and the red line around the property will be about a foot wide.

 

[buddha]

I've used the Surrey County Council Interactive Map to solve a boundary 'dispute'.
Don't know how accurate it is, and it's not the most user friendly, but you can zoom in to whatever scale you like and take measurements using the "Distance" tool.

 

[siadwell]

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

The "dispute" is on its way to being resolved amicably. The neighbour got an independent surveyor involved who quickly concluded that the boundary line had been crossed and proposed a compromise solution where the partly-built wall is moved back a few inches so that we gain a bit at one end and we give a bit at the other end, then the surveyor draws a plan of the new line with measurements and we both sign it.

I did download the original Land Registry drawing but it was worse than useless - it dated from when the houses were being built so half the houses were missing and the road wasn't even finished!

Thanks for the map link buddha - I'd tried the OS GetAMap service and the government MAGIC mapping, but this one is much better. It looks like the source that the architect used for his drawings and to my eye (and a straight edge held up to the computer monitor) indicates the boundary is not straight.