I like this thread because it puts the 'hilliness' of where I live into perspective. I was a bit grumpy this morning because I still don't feel very fit - my rides are still hard work - and then I looked up Box Hill on Wikipedia and I see that the 'zig zag road' climbs 120 metres in 1.6 miles. And for comparison I looked at the route that would be the most obvious extension to my commute, and it climbs 119 metres in 1.66 miles - but it's not called a 'hill' or a 'rise' or anything, it's just a road - one of many, and not an especially hilly or steep one. And now I don't feel so bad about putting off riding it with my 10kg commuting luggage on my 14kg bike, and I feel better about my fitness knowing that even my flattest commuting route is 60% of Box "Hill"