Brompton -- comfort orientated mods for all day riding

[Blue Hills]

I reckon derailers are a quite a bit more free running than any of the hub gears I've tried.

Derailers certainly feel more direct to me.

interesting - can i ask (respectful question) why you went to the rohloff then?

(I did consider one for a few years but the time passed and am now happy with derailleurs for a whole range of bikes - only two, both folders, have a hub gear)

 

[berlinonaut]

Is it likely I could have felt the difference between the 13-14% on the Alfine?

I'd have my doubts.

On the topic of resistance, did the testing organisation test a derailer bike?

It is not a "testing organization" but a community bike magazine, run by a group of very competent volunteers, including people like i.e. Juliane Neuss (creator of the Brompton recumbent), Andreas Oehler (engineer at SON) and many others. And yes, they did. It is the small orange line in the graph. Thin one for 50 Watts. thick one for 200 Watts (as with the other entities tested).

Derailers certainly feel more direct to me.

Definitively and obviously. The planetary gears of a geared hub will always affect effiency due to the friction involved and the lack thereof makes a derailleur more efficient and direct. With a derailleur however there is always a spread between a well cleaned and maintained drivetrain and a filthy one. In case of the latter a Rohloff may sometimes be the winner. A single-speed is always on top due to a straight chain line and way less friction (the more if no chain-tensioner is involved).

 

[Pale Rider]

interesting - can i ask (respectful question) why you went to the rohloff then?

(I did consider one for a few years but the time passed and am now happy with derailleurs for a whole range of bikes - only two, both folders, have a hub gear)

At the time of buying the Rohloff bike I'd never tried one, so I didn't find out about the resistance until after I'd bought it.

Not a big problem, and there are plenty of advantages of a Rohloff over a derailer.

 

[Blue Hills]

Definitively and obviously. The planetary gears of a geared hub will always affect effiency due to the friction involved and the lack thereof makes a derailleur more efficient and direct. With a derailleur however there is always a spread between a well cleaned and maintained drivetrain and a filthy one. In case of the latter a Rohloff may sometimes be the winner. A single-speed is always on top due to a straight chain line and way less friction (the more if no chain-tensioner is involved).

Thanks for this.
It's not hard though, is it, even on tour, to keep a derailleur system clean?
I can definitely feel resistance on my speed pro's sram drive. Whereas my derailleur bikes can fair purr along, less need to be "driven".

 

[berlinonaut]

It's not hard though, is it, even on tour, to keep a derailleur system clean?

I'd say it depends. Judging from the bikes I see on the road every day it seems to be very tough, too tough for many.
The advantage of the Rohloff is that it is a fire and forget solution: The hub is specified to at least 100.000km of use. The sprockets last forever as does the chain. On some of my bikes with Rohloff hubs I have an encapsulated chain, so all maintenance needed it oiling the chain every one or two years and formally changing the oil in the Rohloff hub every 5.000km (or once a year, whatever happens earlier), a simple 10 minute job. Whereas with a dreailled drivetrain you may need to clean it after almost every ride in bad weather conditions, from time to time you have to take the derailleur apart to clean it properly, you have to buy a new set of sprockets every now and then and a new chain as well, both *way* more often than on a geared hub, let alone than on the Rohloff. The Rohloff is literally bomb-proof whereas on a derailleur a lot of things may go wrong especially on tour and with the wide range of different, incompatible derailleur setups today it is not a given to get spares on the road.
The weight penalty of the Rohloff is surprisingly low compared to a derailleur setup with equivalent gear spread. So I consider it a very good solution, especially if you are riding a lot, if you are riding every day, if you are riding far or if you are riding for transport.

I can definitely feel resistance on my speed pro's sram drive. Whereas my derailleur bikes can fair purr along, less need to be "driven".

I do not know what drive you have but you should be aware that most hub drives a greased whereas the Rohloff and the Alfine 11 reside in an oil bath rather than grease which gives a massive advantage when it comes to resistance. Still, from own experience: My two-speed derailleur Brompton is more nippy than the Rohloff one and my folder with a 10-speed derailleur drivetrain is as well. In good weather conditions.

 

[Pale Rider]

Thanks for this.
It's not hard though, is it, even on tour, to keep a derailleur system clean?
I can definitely feel resistance on my speed pro's sram drive. Whereas my derailleur bikes can fair purr along, less need to be "driven".

I prefer the feel of a well maintained derailer, but the Rohloff does have advantages in terms of maintenance.

Overall, I prefer the Rohloff, but I'm certainly not saying everyone should have one.

When new bike time comes, if I spot a bike that has what I want but is derailer only I would still buy it.

 

[12boy]

I've read the 3 speed Sturmey archer 177% hub now made in Taiwan is one of the most trouble free IGH ever. I have lived with the 2 l have with oil for years and have found them so, at least so far. My question goes to the 256% Brompton wide range hub. Is it the same internally as the 3 speed except for different size gears?

 

[chriscross1966]

I had not considered this... well not for the Brompton. Though I did get close to buying a Moulton SST with Alfine 11, but as with the Rohloff, I have no experience of this hub/shifter and none of my local dealers have any Alfine 11 equipped bikes
Is it good? What's so bad about the Shimano shifter? On paper it also raises a couple of questions:

• I'm not very sure about the roller clutch design -- some reports suggest that this gives the drive a spongy quality.
• There's a big jump from 1st to 2nd (29.2%) which rather renders the whole as a 10 speed plus bail-out gear -- this crucially reduces the effective range from a generous 408% (11th/1st) to a skinnier 316% (11th/2nd). ie similar to a 6-speed Brompton plus a baiil-out gear.

As for the saddle, I'm probably still wearing the Brooks in... or should that be the other way round? But am already quite happy with it so think it stays. The undershorts I'm using are admittedly cheap and cheerful... the cushioning is adequate but they do cause a bit of chaffing in the groin, 1 side more than the other whatever that says Do you have any particular recommendations?

Ilike it enough to be using it on another Brompton I'm building.
The Shimano Rapidfire shifter is not only paralysingly ugly, it's huge and almost impossible to conveniently fit on a Brompton handlebar.
The roller clutches are fine if you service it to schedule.
Set up properly that bail-out gear is very handy, but also the convenience of just one shifter and no need to remember what gear you are in... cadence increasing? Click a gear... cadence slowing, click down.... Good shorts won't chafe, some cheap shorts are ok, some aren't, on longer days I use talcum powder liberally or else a chamois cream.

 

[Gunk]

I have a Brooks Swift on mine and it's not a saddle I would choose for all day comfort, it's like sitting on a scaffold pole, the newer standard Brompton saddle IMO is much better, I'm only using the Swift because needs a home in-between projects and it looks nice!