Campagnolo chainset compatibility.

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I am thinking of building up an 80s Pinarello Treviso into a 9 speed bike with more modern Campagnolo parts I have hanging around the shed. The one issue that might be a problem is that the chainset is a Veloce triple marked 10 speed.

I hope it should be OK, but how critical is this to good gear changing?
 
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Location
Loch side.
It will be perfect
 
The problem that you might hit is that the 9s ring spacing is a little different to 10s - however, there are some workarounds and you may have to accept one compromise to how the system "should" function.

If you run a 10s crankset with a 9s chain, especially the Compact (50/34 version) if you use the inner ring and the smallest one or sometimes 2 sprockets (depends on the rear triangle length of the frame), the rivets on the chain can catch on the outer ring's lift ramps / pins which gives an effect like chain suck. Even 10s chains used to do it occasionally, on really short rear triangles.

The workaround is to use a Campag 10s chain (Veloce is still widely available, Record from Condor, only, now) which minimises the issue but potentially then gives you a problem with the front mech, because the cage is too wide for good chain control going from the big ring to the small, if you are heavily cross-chained in the other direction.

Note, before people dive in - it's not all about the limit screw - even with impeccably-set limit screws, it happens. It's the same on Shimano.

Depending on the FD version you have, there are a couple of additional workarounds.

If you have the type with a perforated front to the cage (the 9/10s version) there is a plastic insert that you can put in (it is present already in the 10s version, can be added to later 9s versions, FD-RE016), which effectively narrows the FD cage at the critical spot. In that case, you can set the FD up normally and you will be able to get all 9 sprockets at the back without having to trim, when on the large chainring.
If you don't, there's a different FD set-up routine which can help slow the FD cage down as it finishes it's stroke towards the low limit screw, meaning that the chain hits it and bounces back onto the ring, if it's heading for unshipping to the inside - this set up routine is a bit of a faff and sometimes means that you need to do a Shimano-esque single click downshift to trim the FD on big-to-big to avoid chain-scrape - but it does work. Essentially you need to tension the FD cable with a frame adjuster or an in-line adjuster so that as the inner ring limit surface FD gets close to hitting the inner limit screw, the spring on the FD cage has to "fight" some tension on the gear cable - think of it like a "soft-close" drawer. It's essentially the same as is now used in a correct set-up on both Campag and Shimano mechanical 12s FDs.

We went through all of this years ago on the teams, when we ran some hybrid systems especially on the smaller and / or domestic teams, rather than what would now be WT/ GT, for a variety of reasons ... even on GT teams, because various non-standard set ups were used, there was some "finangling" required ...
 

88robb

Well-Known Member
Location
Netherland
I am thinking of building up an 80s Pinarello Treviso into a 9 speed bike with more modern Campagnolo parts I have hanging around the shed. The one issue that might be a problem is that the chainset is a Veloce triple marked 10 speed.

I hope it should be OK, but how critical is this to good gear changing?

It should work just fine. The chainring spacing on a 9-speed and 10-speed triple is virtually the same. You won't notice any difference in shifting. The main thing is to use a 9-speed chain with your 9-speed cassette.
 
It should work just fine. The chainring spacing on a 9-speed and 10-speed triple is virtually the same. You won't notice any difference in shifting. The main thing is to use a 9-speed chain with your 9-speed cassette.

Sorry, in my haste I missed the word "Triple".
So long as you have an older triple FD and you are not planning to use anything from the Veloce 2012 triple range in terms of shifter or FD, it should be OK - triples, for Campag, were never a great "thing" though and careful set-up is usually needed!
 

88robb

Well-Known Member
Location
Netherland
Sorry, in my haste I missed the word "Triple".
So long as you have an older triple FD and you are not planning to use anything from the Veloce 2012 triple range in terms of shifter or FD, it should be OK - triples, for Campag, were never a great "thing" though and careful set-up is usually needed!

So you're saying that as long as my old triple front derailleur and shifter are from the same era and not from the 2012 Veloce group, they should work together. Just need to set it up carefully.
 
I'm running 10 speed Campag Centaur Centenary chainset and derailleurs with 9 speed Ergo shifters, chain and cassette.

All of my non-vintage derailleur bikes are nine speed. Mainly so I have cross compatibility between bikes but also cost. 9 speed stuff is so cheap now compared to 10/11/12/13. Ebay will sell me a fully plated 9 speed KMC or Taya chain for less than a tenner.

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So you're saying that as long as my old triple front derailleur and shifter are from the same era and not from the 2012 Veloce group, they should work together. Just need to set it up carefully.

Usually, yes.

The trick is to set FD cable tension so that going from small ring to mid, it is one complete stroke of the finger lever. Normally, the chain should pass through the middle of the FD cage (bearing in mind the internal shaping of the FD cage) when you are on the middle sprocket at the rear, with correct cable tension. Then, one full sweep of the finger lever to place the chain on the outer ring, with no rub against the inside of the FD cage in the smallest sprocket / big ring.

IME if you set the cable tension right, you will "just" need to limit the outer movement of the FD up to the big ring - generally you want to avoid the derailleur cage being stopped, while you are still applying pressure to the finger lever (that eventually, in composite finger levers, leads to failure and is a common problem - most of the failures we used to see (still see) in those levers were the result of people using incompatible FDs (most common with "Escape" levers) or poor set-up (we still see that, even today, with 12s levers).

It can be a slightly frustrating juggling act when you are using theoretically incompatible chainring spacings and chain widths but it is perfectly "do-able".

The 9/10s ring spacing difference is just under 0.5mm (narrower in 10s) and usually doesn't present a problem in triples in the same way as it does in double-compact, because the combination of tooth-number steps (and so chainring diameter differences) doesn't bring the chain so close to the "next" chainring. The longer the rear triangle (chainstays) of the frame, the less of a problem this is in general.

The crankset mounts on a different BB axle if the seat tube is 35mm (115mm asymmetric) compared to a 28 or 32mm seat tube (111mm symmetrical) to give correct FD "throw" per click on the lever.
 

88robb

Well-Known Member
Location
Netherland
Set the cable tension first. A full sweep of the lever should move the chain from the small to middle ring. Then adjust the outer limit screw so the cage doesn't push too far. The main issue is usually cable tension, not the limit screws.
 
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