Campaign to ban cycling on the A50

[downfader]

The old A50 is pleasant enough, depends where you're trying to get to. I wouldn't say the cycle path was. The cycle path bit is there as there is no way of crossing the river otherwise. There's virtually nothing you can do about this. Banning cyclists and peds off the A50 would still have the rerouting problems I talked about, it's just as with most cycle schemes it's just assumed that 'no cyclists live there' or 'they wouldn't go that way' which is nearly always wrong.

Then someione will always get a confounded outrage when a cyclist does use it.

 

[marinyork]

Then someione will always get a confounded outrage when a cyclist does use it.

It's impractical and it's impractical to make it a motorway. There's no definite rule ala mark barker for banning cyclists from national speed limit dual carriageways because the road network varies too much - there aren't perfect roads running in straight lines in exactly the right places as people assume without thought.

 

[ComedyPilot]

What next, a campaign to ban girls from wearing short skirts because...............?

 

[John the Monkey]

I'd ride the old road and cycle path though - I only use fast, busy dual carriageways when there is no realistic alternative. Even if it was safe, I wouldn't enjoy cycling on a road like that.

Over here I would too - I've ridden similar roads in France though, and there isn't the hostility and constant threat that there is on similar British roads (although they're bloody dull compared to the smaller roads).

 

[ComedyPilot]

Once again the focus is taken from the cause, and placed firmly on the victim.

If they banned people owning flash cars to deter vehicle theft, there'd be uproar. If they banned plasma tv ownership to deter burglary, there'd be uproar.

They want to reduce casualties, so they want to ban cyclists, as opposed to dealing swiftly and justly with the root cause - people driving vhicles and NOT LOOKING WHERE THEY ARE GOING OR WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

 

[totallyfixed]

No such thing as a dangerous road, it's inanimate.
See http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=54436 hotly debated on time trialling forum.
It's a public road and if cyclists are banned from the A50 it might be the thin end of the wedge. I wouldn't race on it myself and Mrs TF would most likely get a massive PB on it but we both think the traffic is too fast and so stay away. Having said all that I respect the right of a cyclist to ride it if they want.

 

[ColinJ]

Oh. I just read that thread and found this ...

I've been talking to one of Gary Livingstone's former club mates who's reminded me of a few facts about his case. Gary was killed riding on the A50 on his way home from work in Foston. Apparently he normally rode along the cycle path for the 2 miles from Doveridge to Uttoxeter, however elected not to as he had fallen off a few days earlier as it was so icy. (The cycle path at Doveridge is never, ever treated when icy, and goes months without any maintainance/road sweeping whatsoever.) So he was on the main road, supposedly lit up like a christmas tree with lights and reflectors. Mr. Welsh was texting in his HGV, ran into him and killed him.

How can anybody imagine it is safe to text and drive!

If you look at a map, you'll see that since the cycle path was out of action, if Gary Livingstone hadn't tried to ride 3 km along the A50 from Doveridge to Uttoxeter, he would have had to have ridden at least 13 km including some hilly minor roads which themselves might not have been gritted.

 

[dellzeqq]

Funnily enough, I spotted that as I drove down the A130 to a meeting in Southend on Wednesday.

I wonder on what basis they have justified excluding cycles? I may do some digging and see whether they've done so in accordance with the rules and in the proper manner. Some roads authorities think it's simply a case of sticking up a sign...

this was given a good going over at the time. To be fair there is (as you no doubt saw) a wiiiide supersmooth hard shoulder in both directions (I make no admission, mind) and the 'old' A130 runs parallel - as you would no doubt have found out for yourself if you weren't off to a wedding in Llangollen......

I think that cyclists are also banned on the A470 (once again, I make no admission) and iirc a bit of the A43 has cyclists banned. Then, of course, there is the Limehouse Link and, most outstandingly cyclists will be banned from the new A3 tunnel, and the existing A3 torn up at vast expense to turn it in to a mixed use (cyclists, pedestrians, horseriders) path.

 

[Davidc]

I avoid dual carriageways for cycling, and always have, but there are routes where there's no real alternative. Nonetheless I'm strongly opposed to cycle bans anywhere except motorways.

In the UK the car culture is strong - the motor vehicle reigns supreme, and until that changes cyclists will go on having an uphill struggle to maintain the right to ride. I think the tide will turn, eventually, but it's a long way off.

It would be a good idea if cyclists stuck a flashing LED on the back if they really want to ride down a fast dual carraigeway. Slow moving motor vehicle have to and it gives drivers a lot more notice and time to react.

As a minimum. One flashing and one constant is the least I'll use on a road, and on the occasions I have to ride on dual carriageways I make sure they're both working before getting there.

Edit: In a sensible world, if there are too many collisions between cyclists and motor vehicles why can't we segregate them, use one carriageway for motors and the other for everything else. A much better use of the land occupied by the road.

 

[srw]

the existing A3 torn up at vast expense to turn it in to a mixed use (cyclists, pedestrians, horseriders) path.

Hindhead? Lovely if true, but I doubt it. There are permanent "tunnel closed" signs at both ends, with venetian blinds, implying that they can be turned between "tunnel closed" and "tunnel open" states.

 

[dellzeqq]

Apparently it's down to the National Trust

http://www.bikemagic.com/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=52462

This is on the current Highways Agency website

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/3841.aspx
Closure of the existing A3 across Hindhead Common would also mean that the Common is no longer divided and walkers, cyclists and horse riders would be able to use the network of paths across the Common without disturbance from traffic noise and without the risk of road crossings.



One of the greatest difficulties that walkers, cyclists and horse riders face at present is getting to destinations along the line of the existing A3.

The A3 Hindhead Scheme design includes new largely off-road routes along the entire scheme, i.e. from the Canadian Memorial Underpass to Thursley comprising:

• a 9.8 ft (3m) wide cycleway from the Canadian Memorial underpass to Knockhundred and Hammer Lanes along the east verge of the road, and a further cycleway in the west verge connecting Bridleway 71, which runs across Bramshott Common, to Hammer Lane Underpass;
• a 9.8 tf (3m) wide cycleway in the west verge of the existing A3 from Hammer Lane all the way through to Hindhead Crossroads, providing cyclists with a safe route from the Grayshott and Hindhead residential areas to the network of paths and lanes in the Bramshott and Woolmer Hill areas. At Hindhead Crossroads, toucan crossings would be installed to allow the safe crossing of both the existing A3 and A287;
• London Road, which would be reduced to an access only for motorised traffic, from Hindhead Crossroad to the National Trust Café;
• a route for walkers, cyclists and horse riders along the line of Old Portsmouth Road (BOAT 500). This would be a 9.8 ft (3m) wide paved cycle path (suitable for use by road cyclists) with a 6.5 ft (2m) wide grass-gravel horse path alongside. Across Hindhead Common, the existing A3 would be restored to heathland between the NT Café and the access to the youth hostel. The paved cycle path would also be available for use by those in wheelchairs or with pushchairs - a use that is expected to be popular, as it would lead up a gentle gradient to the Sailor's Stone and Gibbett Hill, where panoramic views across the Surrey countryside can be seen;
• North of the youth hostel access, the existing A3 would be kept, but reduced in width to 11 ft (3.5m) for use as an access to the youth hostel and two other properties in the Punch Bowl, and as a continuation of the cycle and horse path;
• Blackhanger through to Thursley, cyclists, walkers and horse riders would be able to use the Boundless to Thursley Link, a new country lane 11ft (3.5m) wide with passing places and a horse margin.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I was reading those A3 links about a month ago (as I was trying to see if the new tunnels could be cycled though), and thinking that when all the work is finished, the new lanes would be nice for a cycle ride......

Does seem daft they can't simply leave the old A3 as it is though (although obviously without the cars allowed).


And on the subject of cyclists banned from roads, there are some stretches of the A27 which don't allow it.

 

[661-Pete]

I know of two stretches of non-motorway road, near me, which ban cyclists. Both of them pass through tunnels.
One is the A27 near Shoreham, going through the Southwick Tunnel.
The other is the A26 at Lewes, the Cuilfail Tunnel.
TBH I wouldn't want to cycle through either of those.

 

[Cardiac]

This is slightly OT, but the thing that bugs me about tunnels is that in this country is that there never seems to be a requirement for drivers to switch their lights on. In Germany for example, it is almost always mandated with clear road signs and every one uses their lights as required, yet in tunnels in the UK one sees very many motorists without lights on, to the extent that even they become hard to see from another vehicle, so how the hell can they see cyclists, etc? The principle of banning cyclists from some roads very much seems to be due to authorities taking the easy option rather than the one that encourages safer driving.

Re the A50 - I agree with others. I would not choose to cycle along it (its design and the lack of enforcement encourages above the limit traffic speeds in many places), but banning cyclists when the real issue is driver awareness and education does not seem fair or helpful.

 

[ufkacbln]

We have a stretch of road near here (A27 by Hilsea) that is a fast dual carriageway.

A few years ago there was a fatal accident when a van drove into a trailer.. from the local press...

A ROAD race between three Hampshire van drivers in which a young roofer was killed was an accident waiting to happen, a court was told.

Witnesses watched as the drivers turned a 14-mile stretch of the A27 into a race track one Friday, hogging the fast lane, overtaking cars on the nearside and driving side by side in a rush to get back to Portsmouth to pick up their pay, Winchester Crown Court was told yesterday.

But the race ended in a crash and the death of passenger Darren Hopwood, 27, from Gosport, when one of the vans, driven by Paul Davies, of Myrtle Avenue, Portchester, swung across the road almost at a right angle and smashed into the back of a slow-moving tractor and loaded trailer, said Jonathan Sharp, prosecuting.

Davies, 33, denies causing Mr Hopwood's death by dangerous driving on October 3, 1998.

Mark Ormston, 33, of Orchard Road, Southsea, and Stephen Batchelor, 38, of Cochran Close, Rowner, Gosport, both deny a charge of dangerous driving.

The jury heard that the three defendants decided to race home for their pay after finishing work on a pub in Chichester for The Portsmouth Roofing Company.

The vehicles they were driving were subject to a maximum speed of 60mph, but witnesses clocked them overtaking at speeds of up to 75mph.

"Darren Hopwood died in what you may think was a horrific crash," Mr Sharp told the jury.

"But what happened to cause his death was not an isolated incident or a momentary error of judgement. It was the end of 14 miles of driving too fast and playing about in the road and racing.

"It ended up with the leading driver, Paul Davies, swinging across from the outside lane of the A27 and trying and failing to make the exit at Hilsea.

"In the excitement of the racing and overtaking, he had forgotten he was to come off at that exit.''

Mr Hopwood died when the corner of the trailer went through the van's windscreen into the cab and the van lifted up in the air and bounced into the crash barrier.

"If the racing and jockeying had not been going on, maybe Davies would have been unlikely to forget the exit that he was supposed to leave by," said Mr Sharp.

Given the evidence the local Press decided that what was needed was a campaign to remove the "hazard" of slower vehicles on this stretch of road and make it into a motorway!

What is really needed is to address bad driving as unacceptable as opposed to making bad drivingthe norm and catering to the lowest common denominator.