Canal path "spills" - what do you do?

[chris667]

I think a lot of the reason for this is the bolded bit above.

There's too much name calling on the Internet. Rather than come up with an argument, it's easier to attack the person. You see it a lot in politics these days.

My theory is it's the lack of physical proximity that makes people forget they're dealing with other humans. It's not nice to be given labels. In this thread I've been accused of being "comfortable with discrimination" for trying to point out a different opinion (which isn't even one I hold!). Other people have been called "nimbys", and "misguided victorianophiles". I have made an inference from their avatar so correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt @mjr would look on me kindly if I called them a "remoaner". Casual name-calling achieves nothing apart from starting all discussions from a position of disrespect.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

I don’t think there’s any horse boating still going on other than tourist operations going up and down the same two miles of canal all day. Sue Day used to travel long distance with her horse but I don’t believe she still does.

 

[chris667]

Sue Day used to travel long distance with her horse but I don’t believe she still does.

I couldn't remember her name - that's her! Glad she is still alive at least.

 

[Alex321]

There's too much name calling on the Internet. Rather than come up with an argument, it's easier to attack the person. You see it a lot in politics these days.

My theory is it's the lack of physical proximity that makes people forget they're dealing with other humans. It's not nice to be given labels. In this thread I've been accused of being "comfortable with discrimination" for trying to point out a different opinion (which isn't even one I hold!). Other people have been called "nimbys", and "misguided victorianophiles". I have made an inference from their avatar so correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt @mjr would look on me kindly if I called them a "remoaner". Casual name-calling achieves nothing apart from starting all discussions from a position of disrespect.

While I'm inclined to agree with you, I have no idea what that had to do with the post of mine you were responding to, which didn't contain any name calling at all, nor was it responding to any???

 

[chris667]

While I'm inclined to agree with you, I have no idea what that had to do with the post of mine you were responding to, which didn't contain any name calling at all, nor was it responding to any???

I was responding to your response to @mjr 's comments on this thread, and you were quoting his post. Sorry, his bit didn't get copied for some reason.

 

[Alex321]

I was responding to your response to @mjr 's comments on this thread, and you were quoting his post. Sorry, his bit didn't get copied for some reason.

Yes, one slightly annoying thing about the quoting on this forum is that it doesn't nest quotes, so you can easily see the history. It only quotes the "fresh" material from the post you respond to.

 

[a.twiddler]

There are horseboaters about. They even have a club!

http://www.horseboating.org.uk/

The biggest challenge to them is other canal users rather than BW.

Llangollen, though rather touristy, has had horseboats for as long as I can remember, at least in the summer.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

Indeed - they go a mile or so each way from Llangollen. The final bit of canal "upstream" of Llangollen isn't generally navigated by powered boats so they have it to themselves.

There's another operation at Tiverton on the (isolated) Grand Western Canal; one at Kintbury near Hungerford on the Kennet & Avon; and the trip-boat on the Cromford Canal is occasionally pulled by a horse. There was one at Maesbury Marsh on the Montgomery Canal, and another at Godalming on the River Wey, but both of those have ceased now.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

There's too much name calling on the Internet. Rather than come up with an argument, it's easier to attack the person. You see it a lot in politics these days.

Hear hear.

Taking "cyclist" as an example, it is rare that outside of dedicated cycling fora it is anything but a pejorative term. At least in parts of the world. A quick read of a few threads here will quickly demonstrate just how different all of us who climb aboard a bike are. It seems unfair and more than a little ignorant to apply the same to others.

This has been an interesting thread in a few distinct ways and educational. Like a good tour it meandered a little off route, brought up unexpected things, gave reason to explore a little history and to think about the present and future. My thanks to the positive contributors.

 

[KnittyNorah]

There are horseboaters about. They even have a club!

http://www.horseboating.org.uk/

The biggest challenge to them is other canal users rather than BW.

Yes I know there is, in fact the prime mover and shaker of the org (which appears to be inactive nowadays) is, or was, someone I used to know vaguely some 25+ years ago, through a shared interest in draught animals.

BW is no more, it handed over its responsibilities in England and Wales to the CRT (Canal and Rivers Trust) more than 10 years ago.

I would say the biggest obstacle is neither the CRT nor other users, but rather the way in what might be called the restoration of the towpath's infrastructure or engineering has been done - with which I am sympathetic, and which I appreciate in the main, being an enthusiastic user of the Lancaster Canal's towpath on my bike. Sadly there were no thought or concessions made to preserving or maintaining a range of features which (we now know) were part of the functional history of the canals, and essential to the full understanding of how they were used commercially for most of their history. I don't for a moment think this was done - at least initially - for any reason other than lack of knowledge, lack of funds - and lack of foresight, too. Hardly surprising given the volunteer work parties 50 + years ago who were working to save the most vital and important parts of the canal network when the state body nominally charged with that responsibility were - or at least appeared to be - actively encouraging its decline into total dereliction. And few people fortold the massive upsurge in both leisure and heritage 'industries'.

One thing I have noticed is that, over the years, the antagonism and aggression, which used to be so commonly and generously on offer to all and any passer-by, from canal anglers sitting on the towpath surrounded by their mountains of paraphernalia, has almost entirely disappeared. IME at least.

 

[ColinJ]

I just found THIS INTERESTING ARTICLE about the history of the canal on the Manchester Evening News website.

 

[thistler]

There's a video here about Todmorden that briefly shows one of the spills that I have a lot of trouble with, hopefully it will start right at the spill:

 

[ColinJ]

There's a video here about Todmorden that briefly shows one of the spills that I have a lot of trouble with, hopefully it will start right at the spill:

I think it is fairly obvious from that video clip why there can be problems with them!

 

[mjr]

Here's an idea. Why don't you try seeing other people's point of view rather than dismissing people and calling them names?

I think it's a bit bizarre now I'm being lectured against dismissive name-calling by someone whose first post on this thread called others "little self-righteous groups" while dismissing the wish to cycle along a towpath that has had a lot of money spent on it to enable its use as a cycle link.

Also, describing groups isn't calling them names. It's far better to use a popular descriptive term than something vague and easily misunderstood like "a certain group of user". If you've something more accurate than NIMBY or misguided Victorianaphile (for it's not all Victorianaphiles being obstructive), feel free to suggest them. I use these terms in person, too.

And I do see the points of view of those groups, but I disagree with them: the NIMBYs I've encountered don't own the towpaths (which usually existed long before they or their family bought adjacent land) yet seem to think they can restrict their use; and the misguided Victorianaphiles are wanting some idealised imagined state that never existed and prioritising that over celebrating the Victorian engineering by making good use of it now. It's absolutely the regressive views that I am attacking, not the people.

If it wasn't for a lot of these groups of people, there would be no canal network for you to complain about.

Maybe not and I do respect their work, but if it was left to some of these groups, there would be no modern use of the preserved canal network either: neither on the towpath or on the water. To some extent, that would be fine if it was the will of the people and no transport budget was spent on it.

 

[ColinJ]

An update from your roving Rochdale Canal towpath reporter:

I was riding out of Hebden Bridge along the towpath today and spotted a Canal & Rivers Trust table there manned by 2 reps. I stopped for a quick chat, and specifically asked about the weirs/spillways. The rep that I spoke to explained how what they can do on the canal is strictly regulated by heritage rules. He pointed at a nearby lock gate and said that they would not even be able to replace a rusty bolt on that without permission!

As for the weirs... They are not allowed to lift any of the displaced cobbles - those must remain in place exactly as they are. What they can do is to renew the cement around them, which they do from time to time. [Hint: That needs doing again! ]

He confirmed that discussions are ongoing about improving access over those weirs. I asked how long the discussions and the subsequent work will take... years? He assured me that a decision should have been made by about the end of this year, and the work itself should not take long for the engineering team to carry out. So... if that is true, then the problem should have been solved by next summer. I will report back on progress!