Cantilever Brakes

[Sluicehoops]

My bike (Kona jake) has kore canitlever brakes and compared to my road bike with caliper brakes their stopping performance is pretty terrible. and much worse in the wet.

I've put koolstop salmon pads on, and that did improve it slightly but its nowhere as good as my other bike.

I've search this forum a bit and learned that i cannot change them for V brakes because the cable pull is different. Correct?

So if i were to change the type of cantilver brakes to say tektro 720 (these seem to be well liked from my searches), would there be a noticable difference?

I'd appreciate any advice on the matter.
Thanks.

 

[gwhite]

It' is possible to swap cantis for V brakes but this would mean changing to V brake levers and ensuring that the distance between the brake posts are the same.
It's difficult to say whether changing the 720's will be effective but they are certainly an improvement on some Tektro offerings especially the Orynx or most narrow profile cantis. The 720's are modestly priced and give better braking if properly set-up so that the anchor arms are close to horizontal. The instructions which come with the brakes give adequate guidance on this but for more information:
http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html#mechanical

 

[HLaB]

It is possible to use problem solver travel agents to make sti's compatible with v brakes but tbh properly set up cantis will be more effective.

 

[VamP]

Avid Ultimates are the ultimate canti. As good as any other rim brake, but pricey. Worth every penny IMO.

 

[HLaB]

Avid Shorties are another I've heard raved about in the past.

 

[Sluicehoops]

OK, thanks for all the info.
From the sheldon brown info I think i need to make sure they are currently setup properly first.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

OK, thanks for all the info.
From the sheldon brown info I think i need to make sure they are currently setup properly first.

Good call! Although Sheldon's guide is not as good as this and the associated simulator. But the real pity is there isn't a single complete, accurate and easy to follow guide on how to set canti's up properly that I can see. Because canti's MA is variable, and generally a bit too high in combination with the levers, the science/logic of optimal set up is not simple, and it is fault-intolerant, unless one understands and knows what to watch out for. The result is there are lots of random advice around, chief amongst those is probably brand/model A is better than brand/model B - the fact is any canti can easily be set up poorly, while most can be set up to perform well.

Since you have Kore ones, unless I am wrong they are wide profile units (like pic below). The thing about wide-profile is their MA is generally fairly uniform, so the first thing I would advice is to: ensure: a) you have decent cabling performance (i.e. mainly outers not too compress-able, you can check by seeing how far you can still pull the lever after the pads have touched the rim), and b) pad/rim clearance no more than 2mm, which is only achievable if the wheels are fairly true.

Chance is sorting cabling and limiting pad clearance may be enough to give you decent performance (given you have good pads), however if not in your case (if they are indeed wide profile units) increasing MA can increase stopping power. I think you should be able to do so by minimizing the distance between the pad and the brake arm, by using the thinnest cup and dish washers there, which should, as you can see from using the tool in the link above, lift the MA curve by reducing the angle alpha. On top of that, you might also be able to increase MA by shortening the straddle wire. However, beware high MA has its price, and it is that the higher the MA, the less pad/rim clearance is allowed if the pads were to be able to grip the rim firmly (after cable outer compressibility has been taken up), and that more frequent adjustment will be needed as the pads wear.

Hope the suggestions above are not too confusing...

 

[Sillyoldman]

Avid Ultimates are the ultimate canti. As good as any other rim brake, but pricey. Worth every penny IMO.

I concur. Shorty ultimates are fantastic. With decent pads like Swisstop or koolstop and they stop you dead. Not sure how expensive they are now, got mine at a decent price.

 

[Sluicehoops]

Thanks for the info RecordAceFromNew, i'm going to look into it on sunday.
I dont know if they're wide profile or not (what do narrow profile look like?).. but they do look like your pic.

 

[geekinaseat]

I have Tektro 720's fitted to my Giant TCX2 and although I have nothing to compare it to I really don't feel like they have enough stopping power (especially with loaded up panniers) this has resulted in a couple of really hairy moments on steep decents in the past! I also sometimes get brake judder which I've read can happen with cantis.

I was actually searching for solutions when I found your post, I think I've concluded that getting them set up correctly is more important than changing them to type X, Y or Z that could have exactly the same issues.

Now the mission is to find a LBS who will do a good job of setting them up correctly....

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Thanks for the info RecordAceFromNew, i'm going to look into it on sunday.
I dont know if they're wide profile or not (what do narrow profile look like?).. but they do look like your pic.

You are welcome. Narrow profile is like below.

Please do let us know how you get on. Assuming you have a decent cabling system, getting a close rim/pad clearance is a key starting point. Without that, tuning for higher MA (which is leverage and will give rise to power) can be counterproductive.

I was actually searching for solutions when I found your post, I think I've concluded that getting them set up correctly is more important than changing them to type X, Y or Z that could have exactly the same issues.

Indeed. That is why we see honest favourable reports of the 720 from gwhite and the Shorty from HLab even here above, despite the fact that these two models are at the opposite ends of canti characteristic spectrum... Sellers must be doing a roaring trade of these things as users continue to hunt for the superior model by jumping from one type to the other.

If I have the time I will try to write something up. But making it easy to follow is going to be challenging...

 

[alicat]

If you have the time, RecordAce, I would certainly welcome it. I have got my Tektro CR720s reasonably well set up with Koolstop Salmons but it has been more by luck than judgement and a good accurate and easy to follow guide would be terrific.

 

[gwhite]

I seem to remember I made up a handout re the setting-up of cantilevers which I used to hand out to clients attending my bike maintenance classes. I'll have a rake around and see if I can turn it up.

 

[Davidc]

Every so often I threaten to change the front Tektro Oryx cantis on my bike for decent dual pivot caliper brakes. One day I'll do it!

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Every so often I threaten to change the front Tektro Oryx cantis on my bike for decent dual pivot caliper brakes. One day I'll do it!

I didn't think you could do that?