Carbon lay on wheels

[Lookrider]

Thought I would share this in case any body is in the xmas market for some bling carbon wheels
My shimano C24s carbon wheels recently had a failure and cannot be repaired ...they are 7 years old so I guess these things happen
However I am more concerned that the carbon part is nothing more than a wrap of black electricians tape around the allow wheel
So if you are about to pay big money for carbon wheels I would question what exactly you are getting in terms of money spent and discuss this with the retailer
I assumed wrongly that the black was all solid carbon moulded to a alloy brake surface ..its clearly not even though the wheels are sold and stated they are carbon ( which I guess they are all be it a strip of c

 

[fossyant]

Ohh the cheek.

I've some hed Jet's that are clearly carbon fairings - like Mavic cosmics, and the braking surface is a rim with a 50mm carbon fairing bonded to it, but they are sold like that. I'm assuming the carbon here is holding the spoke 'thread' in place.

 

[T4tomo]

Thought I would share this in case any body is in the xmas market for some bling carbon wheels
My shimano C24s carbon wheels recently had a failure and cannot be repaired ...they are 7 years old so I guess these things happen
However I am more concerned that the carbon part is nothing more than a wrap of black electricians tape around the allow wheel
So if you are about to pay big money for carbon wheels I would question what exactly you are getting in terms of money spent and discuss this with the retailer
I assumed wrongly that the black was all solid carbon moulded to a alloy brake surface ..its clearly not even though the wheels are sold and stated they are carbon ( which I guess they are all be it a strip of c

these are 10 plus years old from launch date, pretty sure if you read the reviews etc it would say they were alu carbon combo, thinner alu wall reinforced with carbon to give required strength and less weight.

not really a risk for people now, carbon wheel tech has come on in leaps and bounds over 10 years..

 

[Lookrider]

Ohh the cheek.

I've some hed Jet's that are clearly carbon fairings - like Mavic cosmics, and the braking surface is a rim with a 50mm carbon fairing bonded to it, but they are sold like that. I'm assuming the carbon here is holding the spoke 'thread' in place.

I guess that bit "tape" that vone away is I deed holding the nipple plate in place ( in my un qualified view)

I likely replace it with another similar like for like but not a ç24

 

[Cycleops]

That's pretty disappointing especially from Shimano and what is supposed to be their top line of components. It's what you might expect from a cheap Chinese product , it almost borders on a con trick. Oh I'm sure they were sure to describe it correctly but even so. We're all conditioned to accept built in obsolescence and things do have a 'service life' but seven years from what must have been quite an expensive wheel is very poor.

 

[Lookrider]

You get the standard 2 years warranty with shimano as with all other things

Durace you get 3 years for the extra bux....I did point out to the shop that I thought shimano would be interested to test how it failed ...as it was not crash damage and just braking heavily
However they ( madison) were not interested
Anybody any advice on how to approach shimano direct or is it always via there reps at Madison

 

[Cycleops]

I doubt they'd be interested. Madison are just distributors and they've turned their penny. Your contract of sale is through your retailer you purchased it from. You might make a claim as not being' not fit for purpose' and take them to the small claims court. If they fail to defend the claim you'll win. I'm not sure you'll get much change out of Shimano themselves but you can try.
It's a lesson to us all that even if you're buying a top line supposedly quality product from a premiere manufacturer you should analyse what you're buying. Even then you might not see potential problems.
Shame on you Shimano.

 

[Daninplymouth]

I doubt they'd be interested. Madison are just distributors and they've turned their penny. Your contract of sale is through your retailer you purchased it from. You might make a claim as not being' not fit for purpose' and take them to the small claims court. If they fail to defend the claim you'll win. I'm not sure you'll get much change out of Shimano themselves but you can try.
It's a lesson to us all that even if you're buying a top line supposedly quality product from a premiere manufacturer you should analyse what you're buying. Even then you might not see potential problems.
Shame on you Shimano.

Why would you state shame on shimano? The wheels have been used for 7years I would say that is good going

 

[Cycleops]

So what do you think @Lookrider ? Is seven years use from a Dura Ace wheel 'good going'?

 

[Alex321]

So what do you think @Lookrider ? Is seven years use from a Dura Ace wheel 'good going'?

That would depend rather on how much they are used, and in what conditions.

If riding 100+ miles per week, in all conditions, then I would think that is doing pretty well. But if they are only being ridden in dry weather on good roads, for rather fewer miles, less so.

I suspect that most people who shell out for that level of wheels are likely to fall more into the former camp than the latter though.

 

[Lookrider]

So what do you think @Lookrider ? Is seven years use from a Dura Ace wheel 'good going'?
[/QUOTE

He asked you ???
However being the owner of several bikes 3 of which are mountain bikes that have been hammered
One wheel did buckle after a crash but was repaired other wheels have all been fine ...only ones you could compare with durace are enve wheels and they have been fine
Years ago chatting to a shop mechanic about wheels he says they rarely get wheels in for repair nowadays as there that well built
Theres bikes travelled around the world on same wheels ...granted a different build or material
Back to the C24s I do not think they should fail like this..it could have been a major incident...its nit like normal wear n tear where spots of rust or pitting appears...this was a failure that I do not think a wheel should endure
Contracting myself as previously I did say .I have had them 7 years
But in reality why should they not last longer save a collision or doing jumps off rd etc or crash damage
I'm sure shimamo did market it correctly regarding the carbon lay . but again I cannot recall the shop saying..by the way that carbon lay is not what you may be thinking

I think shimano are big enough to want to examine it under there research and develop programmes and maybe they would but to do that we have to get past madison who seem to make shimanos decision for them
Uktimatky I'm a little biased but yes I do think these top o range wheels should perform better
If they were a lot lot cheaper then I guess I would say well I got 7 years from them

Unfortunately I think this thread will rattle down to the usual advice of why bother with carbon etc

 

[cougie uk]

How did you think you had an alu braking surface Lookrider ?
Presumably you'd fitted tyres to it as well so you knew it wasn't a carbon rim from day one ?

 

[Alex321]

I think shimano are big enough to want to examine it under there research and develop programmes and maybe they would but to do that we have to get past madison who seem to make shimanos decision for them
Uktimatky I'm a little biased but yes I do think these top o range wheels should perform better
If they were a lot lot cheaper then I guess I would say well I got 7 years from them

That is the way consumer laws in the UK work.

Your contract is with the retailer, not with the manufacturer. It is always the ret5ailer you have to go back to in the case of any issues with the product, and it is their responsibility to deal with it appropriately if there is any inherent defect. They may then choose to go back to the manufacturer with it, but that is their choice.

The exception to this being manufacturers warranties, but you are well outside that period.

 

[Drago]

Why would you state shame on shimano? The wheels have been used for 7years I would say that is good going

Im still regularly riding 39 year old wheels. That's good going.

 

[Lookrider]

How did you think you had an alu braking surface Lookrider ?
Presumably you'd fitted tyres to it as well so you knew it wasn't a carbon rim from day one ?

I previously stated that I WRONGLY assumed the black was solid carbon
I'm not a wheel builder and was a lot less experienced in things back then
However if I am the only one that would assume this then that's good as the point if my post is to let others aware if what I misunderstood
The whole post was also generated because a guy on another forum had just bought some of these wheels and was asking about them...so I thought I share my experience if what has a actually happened to them
Shimano do clearly state how the carbon layer is bonded onto an alloy rim having seen mine I now understand that now so they are spot on there

Regarding the failure...this could happen to any other wheel that somebody else owns and may result in a catastrophic failure ...I personally would feel bad that my wheel failure was ignored by a manufacture who may have prevented any future failure had they examined tbere failed product
This is a safety issue to me

Well I had them 7 years somebody says ....that relates to around £100 per year and solid riding every day ...would that same guy pay 100 for wheels every year ??

Another guy just posted he has had numerous years from his wheels

I'm aware of the legal contract being between who hands money over ( me ) and who received it ( retail shop)
Madison and shimano have nothing to do with it
The wheels came with the bike and the shop closed down

Safe riding