Catch the conniving jaywalker

[Dayvo]

Or even a single one?

IRC I saw one of Magnatom's many moons ago. The lorry on the roundabout.

 

[Graham]

Are you serious? Peds do that all the time.

Yes.

Wiggydiggy could get sued for the ped he knocked down then?

 

[Dayvo]

Well that is what it is always like.

OK, thanks, Adrian. I'm glad I don't have to cycle on British roads too regularly.

My gripe is that some people claim the moral high ground with regard to safe and sensible cycling by saying that things should be predictable/foreseeable/avoided, yet post threads like this:

[QUOTE 1752072, member: 45"]I commute by bicycle most days in Birmingham and generally find your bus drivers to be courteous and responsible. The fact that is is almost two years since I have had to contact you regarding poor driving standards is testament to this.

This afternoon, I was travelling out of the city on Gooch St around 15:30-15:35 when I was overtaken by a number 35 bus, registration BX02 AVD. The initial overtake was close but acceptable. However, the bus was not fully past me before the driver swung into the kerb sharply to get his wheels between the triple speed humps that feature on Gooch St. The rear of the bus passed me within 20-30cm of my shoulder and I was forced towards the kerb to avoid a collision. Here- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=dig...8&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=digbeth&radius=15000&t=h&z=21

I passed the bus while it was stationary at the next stop and carried on to the junction with Belgrave Middleway. The traffic lights were red at this junction so I stopped in the queue of cars, to the right-hand side but still within the lane and with the intention of carrying straight on over the junction, as only bicyles and buses are permitted to do. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=dig...8&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=digbeth&radius=15000&t=h&z=20

The same bus then overtook me and the other traffic on the wrong side of the road and carried on to the stop line in the bus lane. This time he passed within 20cm of my handlebars, causing me distress as I feared that he was going to hit me.

I rode to the drivers window and pointed out that he had almost hit me twice within the space of a few minutes. His responses included "I gave you enough room","I didn't hit you, did I?", "what are you going to do?" and "I'm a professional driver, I know how much room to give you." In response to the final comment, I asked him what the Highway Code says about how much space should be given to cyclists when overtaking. He raised his hands, smiled and said that he did not know.

I asked for the driver's name and for him to tell me which garage he was from. Several times he refused. He then asked me what I was going to do, told me to call the police, and drove off.

The driver had long brown hair in a pony tail and was wearing a baseball cap. By his accent I assume that he is European but not British.

You will appreciate that I was disturbed by the risk that this driver put me at, and consider it way below the standard that I normally experience and would expect from NEWM. The driver did not appear to take my concerns seriously as he was smiling throughout the discussion.

I would expect you to take this complaint seriously and follow your normal procedures. At the very least the driver should be aware of the contents of the Highway Code and should drive in accordance to the guide.

I would also hope for something more than your standard "we take this very seriously and have spoken to the driver concerned" response, as I have received this in the past only to discover that it was not true. I appreciate your consideration of data protection when discussing individual drivers (though I do not agree with your position) but do not find any reassurance in standard phrases pasted into your response.

Please do not hesitate in contacting me if you need any further information. My aim in this is that professional driving standards are improved in this city, so that the roads are a safer place for the most vulnerable road users.

Thank you.[/quote]

If the poster knows he is NOT alone on the roads, and that he can be overtaken by large vehicles, then he (according to his own reasoning) should 'expect' the unexpected to happen and take necessary action to prevent an accident/near-miss.

 

[snailracer]

Wiggydiggy could get sued for the ped he knocked down then?

Maybe. They could even sue each other. Both sides could allege negligence and contributory negligence. Certainly, there's enough contributory negligence on both sides to limit any one party's liability to less than 100%.

 

[wiggydiggy]

I refer you to my earlier answer to that question. I have nothing else to add to that.

Well, except maybe one thing: we need to put aside this idea of being "right", having "right of way", and worrying about who's at fault. Our aim is to get where we're going without accidents.

I'd rather be slow than right.

d.

This?

I average about 15mph on my commute, through some fairly busy London roads, stretches of which are heavily infested with pavement lemmings, and I manage to avoid hitting them.

But if going at no more than 5mph is what it takes for you to avoid hitting people, then yes, that's the speed you should be going at.

d.

Cycling at 5mph may have ensured my stopping distance was 2-3 feet (all she gave me) but do you expect me to cycle everywhere at that speed just in case an obscured pedestrian I cannot see might step out in front of me?

 

[wiggydiggy]

Wiggydiggy could get sued for the ped he knocked down then?

Maybe. They could even sue each other. Both sides could allege negligence and contributory negligence. Certainly, there's enough contributory negligence on both sides to limit any one party's liability to less than 100%.

I could grow wings and fly to the moon, anything's possible really

In all seriousness its incidents like that for I am happy knowing I have British Cycling 3rd party liability, and a seperate personal injury insurance policy.

 

[snailracer]

...Cycling at 5mph may have ensured my stopping distance was 2-3 feet (all she gave me) but do you expect me to cycle everywhere at that speed just in case an obscured pedestrian I cannot see might step out in front of me?

No, only at the busy bits with pedestrians about. Is that reasonable?

 

[wiggydiggy]

No, only at the busy bits with pedestrians about. Is that reasonable?

But you say yourself you cycle at an average at 15mph along stretches of fairly busy london road, some stretches of which are infested with pedstrian lemmings, why is what's good enough you is not for me? Or do you slow down to 5mph at all those lemming hotspots and make sure you go fast enough elswhere to average that 15mph?

So no its not reasonable to expect me to cycle everywhere at 5mph just in case a pedstrian I cannot see steps in front of me, which is what happened.

 

[smutchin]

But you say yourself you cycle at an average at 15mph along stretches of fairly busy london road

No, that was me, not snailracer.

Again, I have nothing to add to what I've already said.

d.

 

[wiggydiggy]

No, that was me, not snailracer.

Again, I have nothing to add to what I've already said.

d.

Ok I have got the wrong post sorry, can you quote yourself so that I read the right one to avoid further confusion please?

PS The 'nothing further to add' is a bit awkward don't you think, its something that happens too often on CChat IMO and it can turn a nice debate (this) into a bit of an nonsencial forum points contest.....

 

[smutchin]

It's OK, you quoted me correctly but then also attributed my views to Snailracer when replying to him.

d.

 

[smutchin]

PS The 'nothing further to add' is a bit awkward don't you think, its something that happens too often on CChat IMO and it can turn a nice debate (this) into a bit of an nonsencial forum points contest.....

Sorry if it looks like I'm being awkward, I just don't want to get involved in one of those silly arguments that essentially amounts to two intransigent people repeating themselves ad nauseam.

d.

 

[wiggydiggy]

No, only at the busy bits with pedestrians about. Is that reasonable?

Sorry if it looks like I'm being awkward, I just don't want to get involved in one of those silly arguments that essentially amounts to two intransigent people repeating themselves ad nauseam.

d.

Ha well so I did, well aplogies to you both

I think your right BTW about the repeating thing being annoying so seeing as I can't reply to the right person I'll duck out at this point.....

 

[Buddfox]

I suppose if it would make the situation easier for you to deal with, then why not go after them? The fact that she gave false details would suggest she believes it was her fault. Maybe she panics and offers to pay for the bike repairs? You never know until you try.

Is there specific case law on the liability of pedestrians when they step out in front of vehicles (either cars, PTWs or cycles) unexpectedly? It would be interesting to read how the courts have dealt with it. Whilst I've always understood that hitting pedestrians on a bike would always de facto be the cyclist's fault (for the myriad reasons already outlined above), I can envisage a scenario when a court would find at least in favour of the vehicle driver to some extent. If it's never been tested in court, then doesn't it remain open that a court could find in a driver's favour?

 

[snailracer]

I could grow wings and fly to the moon, anything's possible really

In all seriousness its incidents like that for I am happy knowing I have British Cycling 3rd party liability, and a seperate personal injury insurance policy.

I'm not saying you're a sinner or anything, I've had my incidents with peds too.
What I am saying is that the courts seem rather more inclined to share out the blame than you (or even I) might think.