Ceramic Rims and Ceramic-specific Brake Pads

[BorderReiver]

I have treated myself to a pair of DT Swiss ceramic rims so I thought I'd better get some special ceramic brake pads for my (Ultegra) calipers.

I've tried both the "special" pads and the normal ones and can't tell the difference in braking performance. I imagine the ceramic pads are a harder compound to go with the harder rims but other than not wearing out as fast is there any benefit in using them?

 

[Globalti]

No the ceramic pads, if you mean the blue Swisstop ones, are softer than regular pads so that they wear sacrificially to save the rim finish.

With such a high rate of wear though you have to be sure to keep the pads clean, which you can do by pulling a damp old towel or microfibre cloth through behind them to remove blue dust from the grooves.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

You are on a hiding to nowhere. Ceramic rims are borne out of false engineering principles.
You haven't treated yourself, you punished yourself.

 

[fossyant]

You are on a hiding to nowhere. Ceramic rims are borne out of false engineering principles.
You haven't treated yourself, you punished yourself.

That's basically what the guy I bought my fixie off over 10 years ago (bike shop). Was going to spec ceramic rims for longevity commuting. He said no chance. You are more likely to chip and damage the surface and they won't stop as well. Game over when surface is damaged I believe.

 

[Globalti]

Poor BR.... he's pleased with his new wheels. If it's the same black plasma finish as on my Fulcrum Racing Zeros, no, I wouldn't give it long in typically wet gritty British conditions, but then my best bike only gets ridden in dry weather and in the dry they stop the bike superbly.

However I may be talking nonsense here because plasma and ceramic probably aren't the same thing. Anybody?

 

[BorderReiver]

Well, I had a pair of Mavic Ceramic rims about 8 years back and they were rubbish - the finish did come off and I had them replaced with Open Pros under warranty. Apparently the finish coming off was a known problem. I've had the DT Swiss ones longer than that and the finish is fine but it is a bit too early to say if they will last longer than plain alloy. If I've been suckered in by "false engineering principles" it won't be the first time. Live and learn!

 

[fossyant]

Poor BR.... he's pleased with his new wheels. If it's the same black plasma finish as on my Fulcrum Racing Zeros, no, I wouldn't give it long in typically wet gritty British conditions, but then my best bike only gets ridden in dry weather and in the dry they stop the bike superbly.

However I may be talking nonsense here because plasma and ceramic probably aren't the same thing. Anybody?

Black plasma is most likely marketing bollicks for annodising. Looks a mess when it wears. Tend to pick rims with a braking surface of plain old non painted rim.

Ceramic finish is a microfine layer, that comes off and is marketing bollicks too.

Both the same bollicks.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Black plasma is most likely marketing bollicks for annodising. Looks a mess when it wears. Tend to pick rims with a braking surface of plain old non painted rim.

Ceramic finish is a microfine layer, that comes off and is marketing bollicks too.

Both the same bollicks.

Plasma is not a thing, it is a process. In this case it is Plasma Spraying that's used to spray a material onto the rim. The process involves heat and high-velocity spraying. It is also sometimes called plasma spluttering. So yes, "plasma rims" is bollocks.

The ceramic coating on the so-called ceramic rims is a thick layer of super-hard and super non heat conductive material applied to the aluminium.

In theory the idea of something hard to prevent abrasion seems like common sense. Unfortunately, engineering isn't common sense. It is a ridiculously stupid concept. Reason being that the non-conductive splutter-applied ceramic doesn't transfer heat from the brake pad (where it is generated) into the big aluminium heat sink. The heat remains in the pad, which melts the pad and ablates it away. Secondly, it offers just about no braking force - akin to a wet alu rim that just never dries.

Ceramic-specific pads are thus high-temperature rubber, which as another nail in that coffin, doesn't have a good co-efficient of friction.

It is all bollocks just like you said.
Double bollocks

 

[Crankarm]

The solution is disc brakes, hydraulic disc brakes.

 

[fossyant]

The solution is disc brakes, hydraulic disc brakes.

Nah. Conventional brakes are fine too.

 

[Sea of vapours]

The solution is disc brakes, hydraulic disc brakes.

Nah. Conventional brakes are fine too.

If the problem is making the wheel rim part of the braking system, and thus a high wear component - and it sounds as if the primary** idea of 'ceramic rims' is to address this - then disc brakes, hydraulic or otherwise, very much is *a* solution to that problem, and one that works in addressing the rim wear issue, unlike ceramic rims by the sound of it.

** Pretty clearly, the real idea of ceramic rims is to gain marketing advantage, but nominally they are intended to prolong rim life, presumably.