Chainset won't budge - what I am doing wrong?!

[Barbelier]

Trying to remove the chainset from this bike and I can't get it to budge:
http://www.bikes2udirect.com/B3196.html
The bike has Shimano 8 speed double STI shifters and I believe (can't see any part nos.) it has the following fitted:
Shimano FC-2303 chainset
Shimano BB-UN26 bottom bracket
Using the Park CCP-22 crank puller and following exactly the procedure per the Park crank removal guide.
I've checked there isn't a washer in there.
Also can't budge the other crank.

When I wind it in, the thread on the crank puller seems to be pushing on the square opening of the crank arms and not contacting the spindle on the BB and therefore it can't push the crank off the spindle. I've tried it with and without the "cover" (what is this for?) on the end of the CCP-22 with the same result.

I thought I was using the right crank puller, but maybe not?
First time I have attempted to remove a chainset so quite possible I'm missing something obvious or doing something really stupid.

Would really appreciate any help before I go completely mad or take out a very large hammer.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The tip is important without it you may damage the threads on the square taper.

Difficult without pictures....

iirc the park tool is two sided. The bit that screws into the pedal, that the pusher shaft goes through, has a hex shaped bit in the middle and a threaded section either side. One threaded section is longer than the other.

If you use it the wrong side of the two-threaded part the pusher never gets close enough to the square tapered axle to pull the crank off.

The two-threaded part unscrews off the central shaft. Try taking it off, turning it over and putting it back on, and try it that way around

 

[fossyant]

You are screwing in the outer section, then once that's secure, winding in the centre section attached to the handle ?

 

[ColinJ]

I had a similar problem when trying to pull a crank off my mountain bike. It turned out that I needed to insert a little metal 'plug' for the crank extractor to push against. My LBS had them in stock for a couple of pounds. (I tried inserting a 1 p piece but the crank tool just bent it.)

 

[Barbelier]

You are screwing in the outer section, then once that's secure, winding in the centre section attached to the handle ?

Yes exactly what I am doing. Also tightening up the outer section slightly with a spanner.

 

[Barbelier]

I had a similar problem when trying to pull a crank off my mountain bike. It turned out that I needed to insert a little metal 'plug' for the crank extractor to push against. My LBS had them in stock for a couple of pounds. (I tried inserting a 1 p piece but the crank tool just bent it.)

Hmmm. That sounds like something that might work. Will look for a suitable plug.

 

[02GF74]

the extractor consists of two pieces: the lager diameter part screws into the crank arm - take your time with this as you do not want to crossthread the threads - also use a spanner to screw it in as far as possible - the more threads engaged, the less likey you are to strip them.

the central part screws into the outer part and pushes on the spindle - that is how the crank arm comes off.

the bottom bracket you have has a hole for the bolt - that you have removed right? Sometimes the central part of the extractor just goes into the hole so no pushy effect.

i use a smaller bolt (possible M8?) whose head just fits inside the square hole in the crank arm yet rests on the spindle to give the extractor something to push against.

if you have no joy - then use a blow torch to heat the crank - the alloy crank will expand more than the spindle so it should be easier to remove.

 

[fossyant]

The other thing is that park tool won't have much leverage. I use the park one without the handle, and a big 12 inch adjustable spanner.

 

[Barbelier]

The other thing is that park tool won't have much leverage. I use the park one without the handle, and a big 12 inch adjustable spanner.

Done it!!
Knowing you leave the tip on the crank puller (thanks Greg) was important. Obvious now I think about it (and I feel a bit of twit), but the Park maintenance page isn't very helpful, since the picture shows the tip removed and you can't see it at all in the video.

Was trying it with the tip on at one point but the real problem was I didn't realise how much force would be needed to loosen the cranks. Most of the videos show the cranks coming of pretty easily (although I assume now they have been pre-loosen). I had to wack the crank puller handle round with a hammer for a complete turn and half before it loosen.

Also I removed the bottom bracket because I need to fit a shorter spindle (something else I've not attempted before). Just waiting for the new BB to arrive before I can finish the job.

Feeling pretty chuffed now and will be confident in changing cranks & bottom brackets in the future.

Many thanks for all the help!

 

[fossyant]

Well done - yup you need a big spanner/leverage. Make sure you clean the BB threads in the frame, regrease and refit the new bb.

 

[Barbelier]

Thought installing the new BB would now be straightforward..........but no!!

Cleaned the threads and greased with waterproof grease both sides and installed the BB on the drive side with no problem at all.
But cannot get the retaining ring on the non drive side to engage. I'm using the correct thread direction which is clockwise and I tried carefully for quite some time to get the thread to engage.

The BB I am installing is a Shimano UN55 although I was very surprised that the retaining ring is plastic when I was expecting steel.

I even refitted the retaining ring from the old BB to ensure that I hadn't damaged the threads or wasn't doing something stupid and it refits perfectly. Unfortunately the ring from the old BB will not fit the new one otherwise I would use it.

Has anyone else had this problem?
Would really appreciate your help again.

PS. Can you buy separate retaining rings (without buying the whole BB) in case the one I have is damaged or defective?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

What type/brand/model is the old square taper BB? Do the thread directions on the new one match those on the old? Is the old italian thread and the new english or vice versa?

Can you fit the new retaining ring on the non drive side WITHOUT the new BB in place?

Are you ensuring you've got the L and R ends of the new BB the right way around (should be marked on body of BB) from the viewpoint of the rider?

Have a read of Sheldon Brown's website for the complexities of life, the universe and everything, and BB's in particular.

 

[Barbelier]

Thanks Greg

What type/brand/model is the old square taper BB?
There is no make on the old BB only a number something like CP-54 (don't have it with me so will have to check).

Is the old italian thread and the new english or vice versa?
The bike is a kids Dawes Espoir 3000 which is about a year old so I assume its English thread? How do you tell the difference?

Can you fit the new retaining ring on the non drive side WITHOUT the new BB in place?
No

Are you ensuring you've got the L and R ends of the new BB the right way around (should be marked on body of BB) from the viewpoint of the rider?
I thought (maybe mistakenly) that the BB goes on the right drive side and the retaining ring on the left non drive side? Will check what's marked on the BB.

Have a read of Sheldon Brown's website for the complexities of life, the universe and everything, and BB's in particular.
Had a quick look at the Sheldon Brown website. Lot of information there and one to read on a rainy evening.

 

[lpretro1]

Get bb threads re-tapped - lbs should do for you for a couple of quid if you have already removed the cranks.

 

[PpPete]

Thanks Greg

What type/brand/model is the old square taper BB?
There is no make on the old BB only a number something like CP-54 (don't have it with me so will have to check).

Is the old italian thread and the new english or vice versa?
The bike is a kids Dawes Espoir 3000 which is about a year old so I assume its English thread? How do you tell the difference?

Can you fit the new retaining ring on the non drive side WITHOUT the new BB in place?
No

Are you ensuring you've got the L and R ends of the new BB the right way around (should be marked on body of BB) from the viewpoint of the rider?
I thought (maybe mistakenly) that the BB goes on the right drive side and the retaining ring on the left non drive side? Will check what's marked on the BB.

Have a read of Sheldon Brown's website for the complexities of life, the universe and everything, and BB's in particular.
Had a quick look at the Sheldon Brown website. Lot of information there and one to read on a rainy evening.

Don't wait for the rainy evening....

Does the new BB look like the one below? The thread information is on there.
68 - width of the BB shell on the frame (measure your frame to be sure)
1.37 x 24 - That's british thread
If it says 36 x 24 then it's an Italian thread BB and won't fit your presumably british threaded frame.