Cleaning steel: muc-off-like washes v Turtlewax?

[mjr]

So at some point around when I got my first alloy bike in 2010, I started using muc-off and I've used various similar washes since then (KaBoom, Fenwicks, ...) thinking it used less water and less effort and got the bike as clean. I followed it up with a bit of polish (Silicone Shine to start with...) And when I got some steel bikes again, I carried on using it... but now some of the shiny bits have rust specks on

Is this inevitable, do other people suffer this with muc-off-style washes, is it related and would I be better off switching back to a waxing car wash like Turtlewax Zip Wax for the steel bikes? I used to use that and don't remember having this problem but maybe my memory is failing me

 

[fossyant]

Rust depends upon storage and what you coat the steel parts in.

I just wash the bikes with cheap car wash and wax and warm water. Occasionally polish with Mr Sheen. I do keep all the parts lubed.

 

[Ajax Bay]

some of the shiny bits have rust specks on

Which bits? Surely your steel frame is painted/not shiny. What's this got to do with the frame?
Washing up liquid in a bucket of warm water, aggressive brushing; then, spray (ie with hose) off and quick rub dry all over.

 

[mjr]

Bikes are in a dry but unheated outbuilding (locked to anchors).

Which bits? Surely your steel frame is painted/not shiny. What's this got to do with the frame?
Washing up liquid in a bucket of warm water, aggressive brushing; then, spray (ie with hose) off and quick rub dry all over.

Mostly painted, but the rust is speckling on bits like the stem, bars and other unpainted parts.

I think I'd rather zip wax than washing up liquid and I don't like hosing bikes.

 

[mjr]

Rust depends upon storage and what you coat the steel parts in.

I just wash the bikes with cheap car wash and wax and warm water. Occasionally polish with Mr Sheen. I do keep all the parts lubed.

They're kept lubed but I wonder if the bike washes are stripping oil more thoroughly than car wash did, or if car wax or polish are better than bike wax. Is bike wax currently made more for the majority alloy and carbon frames?

 

[Ajax Bay]

the rust is speckling on bits like the stem, bars and other unpainted parts

They're kept lubed

Wash it. Dry it. Exposed steel - GT85.The bike is being kept in an unheated and therefore possibly condensation prone environment and this moisture (after a significant temperature swing overnight (say)), left to oxidise the exposed steel, may be the root of your problem. Needs a daily morning visit with a piece of kitchen towel.

 

[Apollonius]

I believe washing-up liquid contains salt, which is why it should be avoided, even for cars, which, after all, don't matter much. A spray of GT85 after washing, whether the bike is steel, alloy or carbon can do no harm and keeps the water off.

 

[Salty seadog]

washing up liquid is perfectly fine, after all you're going to rinse it off immediately.

does anyone know anyone whos bike has suffered as aresult of its use.........not any of mine in all my life....

 

[Ajax Bay]

washing-up liquid contains salt, which is why it should be avoided, even for cars

It does contain salt (as much as 5%!) but think how heavily it's diluted in half a bucket of water 30ml in 3l of water (ie 1:100 so 500 parts a million), and just in case those pesky 500 get there they get washed away by the hose and then wiped off/dry. About the same chance as one of those 'chap' things getting to the lady. Rather more salt from the salted/gritted road.

And a thread from here in 2008:

I've used washing up liquid for years on bikes, motorcycles and cars and I've never had a problem.
Where do people get this stuff about washing up liquid being an abrasive? It's just a soapy liquid. . . . . .

1/ Washing up liquid contains so little salt, which is on the bike for a matter of minutes before you rinse it off that it makes bugger all difference. 100 yards on a gritted winter road will cover your bike in more salt than a lifetimes cleaning.
2/ Wax makes things shine. It does NOT protect, unless anyone can explain how a coating of about 1/10,000th of an inch thick will somehow protect your paint from stone chips.

And finally, do you know that car 'shampoos' and the like DON'T contain salt?

 

[fossyant]

Storage can affect the corrosion - where is the bike kept ? Any steel parts will corrode if not blobbed with a bit of oil - e.g. I blob oil into all hex heads on any steel bolts.

So long as you are washing road salt off regular (soapy water - so washing up liquid or car shampoo) and oiling regular, you should be OK. Exposed metal parts may need the odd blob of oil, e.g. axels.

Mech's like a regular squirt with GT85 or WD40 on the pivots - I've seen a friend seize permanently a new XT front mech in a few winter months - applied no oil to it.

 

[EasyPeez]

Without wishing to hijack the thread, are there any easy ways to keep condensation off the bike in storage? Mine are kept in a brick outbuilding, which has the double problem of also being home to the tumble drier. I don't think my alu CX is much of a problem as it gets ridden every day and wiped down on arrival at work and again once home (though I guess the condensation could be getting into bearings and mechs still?)

But my steel road bike is now kept for best, so although kept immaculate after rides and sprayed liberally with GT85 after every post-ride wash, doesn't get touched much in midweek when the nights are dark, so is stood in the brick shed for a large portion of the week.

Would covering it with an old bedsheet, or one of these, or a combination of the two help?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI1MFgxMDAw/z/UasAAOSw0vBUdYxA/$_35.JPG

 

[DRM]

I seem to recall that the issue with using washing up liquid to clean cars was the fact that it causes the paint to go dull and strips the shine off it, rather than the salt making them go rusty.

 

[Gravity Aided]

I think a nice coat of wax helps fight corrosion in all weathers. I see some pretty neglected bicycles pass through my hands now and then, or did, when that was a supplementary income for me, and I found that a good cleaning wax, like Megulars', would do a fine job of freshening the paint if it had oxidized. Brightwork and fittings benefit as well, after a good scrub with steel wool and coca-cola.

 

[YahudaMoon]

I think rust problems depends on the component quality?

My 30 year old Columbus SLX NEW steel frame can go through water day in day out, year in year out without any rust problems

Though my Columbus Aelle steel frame goes rusty just exposed in damp conditions for a day of what then contaminates expensive components like Dura Ace

Ive always been amazed how this Columbus SLX NEW steel doesn't go rusty after 30 years

 

[Brandane]

If you want to avoid corrosion, get yourself a can of this stuff:

I use it on my motorbike, which spends winters outside in the west of Scotland. Motorcyclists swear by it. I think it is also used by the US Navy for protecting aircraft whilst at sea on aircraft carriers. It's not the cheapest, but it is the best IMHO., and one can goes a very long way. Just spray some on a cloth and wipe over the bits of the bike you want protected (not braking surfaces, obviously!).