Cleats causing knee pain: solution sought

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stevejaxon

New Member
Yesterday I rode the 115-mile Round London ride...most of the time feeling pain in my right knee. I think it's caused by my right cleat restricting a natural tendency for my leg to rotate outwards (it could be considered 'unnatural', but it's what my leg does). I wonder if a) anyone else has had a similar problem, and b) what can be done about it. Of course, my diagnosis could be wrong...but I welcome any suggestions.
 

4F

Active member of Helmets Are Sh*t Lobby
Location
Suffolk.
As a starter for 10 what pedals are you using ?
 
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stevejaxon

stevejaxon

New Member
Not sure how to best describe...they're Campagnola and have 'Look Patent' on them. I bought them at least 8-9 years ago, and they're an older, more rigid design than you see a lot of riders using now.
 

defy-one

Guest
What degree of float does your cleat have?
It may be an idea to try a cleat with more float as your natural tendency is to rotate out.
 
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stevejaxon

stevejaxon

New Member
Though I've had them for many years, Andrew, I only started doing more serious distances in the last 2-3 months.
When you say float, defy-one, I assume you mean that different cleats have more give in them. (I've never tried any others.) Mine are really quite rigid and tend to trap the feet in a particular position, so the idea of something with more give seems like the right direction...
 

TheJDog

dingo's kidneys
Try the cleats at a different angle. If I attached my cleats perfectly straight my knees would hurt too. I have mine so that me feet are a little splayed. Most people's natural position probably isn't straight
 

on the road

Über Member
When I fitted my cleats I sat on the bike first and then to just let my feet dangle there so I could notice the natural angle of my feet and adjusted the cleats so that when clipped in my feet would be at their natural angle.
 
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stevejaxon

stevejaxon

New Member
Thanks for all the suggestions which I'll certainly try. I do, in fact, have the red cleats and by 'float' I think you mean the degree you can adjust the postition of the cleat on the sole of the shoe? I was curious if other cleat designs offer more rotation or not?
 
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stevejaxon

stevejaxon

New Member
Thanks for the clarification, Andrew. That's what concerns me ie that my feet are being held too firmly - that's what it feels like, specifically on the right side.
 

Davidc

Guru
Location
Somerset UK
a) Yes. Last year.

b) The muscular skeletal specialist I saw said he's seen many cases of this caused by cleats. Said it could be mitigated by rotating the cleats but his best advice was generally to simply not use them.

Both of my legs and feet are well off being aligned straight and the left one is towards the limit for "normal".

It took a year for the injury to go, but that's presumably because I'm a bit long in the tooth. I went back to clips and straps and will be staying that way.
 

Berties

Fast and careful!
Mate,if you've been using them for a long time you sure you just ain't over done it,before members just start throwing random solutions at you,I have rode for a few thousand in MTb cleats as they suit my style,but last week did serious speed and intervals on the turbo and my knees are giving me jib,what distance and terrain do you normally do in reflection to 115 miles,some good solutions coming in but with any advice on a forum you have to take a educated solution to your problem ,I always seek a physios advice,to get to the solution,of pain then by answering his questions recheck bike set up etc I can get to the bottom,also after a ride of distance do you or did you stretch all leg muscle groups and warm down
 
As posted in a previous thread:

The publishers of JUST RIDE gave me permission to reproduce this from his book



The Shoes Ruse

In this extract from his book JUST RIDE, Grant Petersen of Rivendell Bicycle Works explodes some of the myths surrounding clip-in pedals


The shoes ruse
A firm attachment to the pedals was helpful and almost necessary in the early days of bike racing, when all bikes had fixed gears (no freewheel, no coasting), and the gears were low by today’s standards. Then, once the racers got up to 18 miles per hour or so, they were spinning the pedals like human roadrunners, and if a foot came off the pedal, it was harder to slow the bike down and find the pedals again. Toe clips, straps, and cleats evolved to secure the foot and reduce the danger of runaway pedals, and eventually the freewheel eliminated that danger altogether. But by then, the clips and straps were entrenched, and there was no going back. By 1980, if you rode a bike and didn’t use toe clips, straps, and cleats, you weren’t serious.
Then, in the mid ’80s, LOOK—a ski boot and binding maker—introduced ski-binding technology to bikes, with the first popular clipless pedal-and-shoe system. Pro racers took to it, other manufacturers followed, and within three years virtually every road racer in the First World had converted. It spilled over to mountain-bike racing, and today even a few gullible commuters have adopted them. When I see ten-year-olds riding with clipless shoes and pedals, I fear for the future.
Proponents say:
With clipless, there’s more power to the pedal because it’s not being absorbed by a soft and flexible shoe sole.
With clipless, it’s easier to apply power all around the circular pedal stroke.
Neither is true, though.
As long as your pedals aren’t dinky - say, as long as they’re 2.5 x 3.5 inches, or about the size of a compact digital camera - any shoe does the job without flexing, because the shoe is supported by the pedal. If the pedal can’t flex, the shoe can’t - no matter how flexy it may be just out of the box. Besides, the part of your foot that’s behind the pedal can’t flex while you’re pedaling, because your foot mechanics won’t allow it.
The only riders who benefit from clipless pedals are racers, and only because their pedals are so small and slippery. If you don’t ride tiny, slippery pedals, you don’t need stiff, cleated shoes.
And the 360-degrees-of-power argument is just as weak. In studies where efficient, pro pedal-ers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us that nobody pulls up on the backstroke. The most efficient pedalers just push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do. (They still push down on the upward-moving pedal - not a good thing, because effectively one leg is fighting the other - but the best pedalers push down less.) Now, if they don’t pull up, you don’t pull up, and if you don’t pull up, there’s no 360 degrees of power, and no biomechanical/physiological reason to lock your foot to the pedal.
The benefits of pedaling free far outweigh any real or imagined benefits of being locked in. They are as follows:
You can wear any casual shoe in your closet - whatever your mood, your outfit, and the weather calls for. You don’t have to go find your “cycling shoes” because you won’t have invested in techie two-hundred-dollar pedals that require them.
Your muscles last longer. Moving your foot about the pedal shifts the load, even if slightly, to different muscles, and spreads the load around. Sprint up hills on the balls of your feet and, on long-seated climbs, push with the pedal centered almost under your arch. It’s not a turbocharged, magic sweet spot, but it feels better and more natural, and you can’t do it if you’re locked in.
You reduce the chance of a repetitive stress injury, because your feet naturally move around more, changing your biomechanics.
You get off and on easier at stoplights; there’s no twisting to get out of your pedals, no fussing to get back in.
You can walk in stores without walking on your heels. You can run! You aren’t handicapped by expensive and weird-looking shoes.
Riding “free” isn’t new or revolutionary, and it’s not just a grumpy stab at the established order. It’s normal, it’s natural - it’s the way you rode as a kid, the way most of the planet rides, and the way you’d ride if you weren’t under the racing influence. Can you imagine yourself - after years or decades of perfectly uneventful happy riding in regular shoes and pedals - concluding that you’d be better off riding in shoes that didn’t work as well off the bike, or on pedals that required special shoes?
I know - of course - that it helps to be firmly attached to the pedal when you’re sprinting in the rain (your foot may slip off the pedals without a fixed connection), or hopping over a dead raccoon, or hiking the bike up over a curb without getting off. But giving up normal shoes for a few rare circumstances like these doesn’t make sense.
 
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