Close call for mother and child

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Nigeyy

Legendary Member
I agree, it's not holier than thou. At a crossing the first thing I do is look for pedestrians...... I think that's certainly a good and correct road user habit. Once you see a pedestrian close enough to the crossing (subjective judgement mind you) you certainly slow down. Once you think they might cross or get even closer to the crossing (again subjective to a degree), start braking....

If I see a pedestrian near a zebra crossing, I slow down. I'd consider this riding/driving in a defensive manner - it's not holier than thou, BS.

But interesting quote:

The first time I watched it I thought the mother & child appeared from nowhere to cross

I still think it's hard to tell from the video whether the pedestrian was obscured/made a quick move into the crossing/car going too fast/appropriate speed. And that's with the benefit of watching it several times...... something the car driver didn't have the benefit of!

Personally I find it hard to understand why (given the video) some people are so utterly convinced the driver was reckless. That's not to say he or she was or wasn't, just that given that video -well at least for me -I can't definitively tell.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
I agree, it's not holier than thou. At a crossing the first thing I do is look for pedestrians...... I think that's certainly a good and correct road user habit. Once you see a pedestrian close enough to the crossing (subjective judgement mind you) you certainly slow down. Once you think they might cross or get even closer to the crossing (again subjective to a degree), start braking....



But interesting quote:



I still think it's hard to tell from the video whether the pedestrian was obscured/made a quick move into the crossing/car going too fast/appropriate speed. And that's with the benefit of watching it several times...... something the car driver didn't have the benefit of!

Personally I find it hard to understand why (given the video) some people are so utterly convinced the driver was reckless. That's not to say he or she was or wasn't, just that given that video -well at least for me -I can't definitively tell.

People do not appear from nowhere - even if the camera makes it difficult to see what is going on in the mid to long distance (the human eye is far better than a GoPro/Contour etc). I have no doubt that the motorist should have seen the pedestrian if they looked properly. I think it likely his focus was on passing the cyclist, and he missed the other hazard - humans do not need much to send them into cognitive overload.
 
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Origamist

Legendary Member
For those asking, "why are people blaming the mother", I don't think anybody here is blaming her - just that she probably should have taken a bit more care before stepping on to the crossing which I think is a perfectly fair comment. I'd say the same whether there had been a car approaching or not.

If there had been a collision it clearly would have been the driver's fault and I think most people on here have said that the driving is pretty terrible (it is) but come on, whatever happened to "stop, look and listen"? It still applies, crossing or no crossing.

If you want to reduce danger at source on the roads, the primary objective is to tackle those in charge of heavy machinery as they have far greater lethality. Focussing attention on the pedestrian's behaviour detracts from this key tenet of reducing road danger as the driver and pedestrian are not equivalent.

Teaching kids and adults road coping strategies as a last resort is "fine", but it does not help to ameliorate what is often a difficult and hostile environment for vulnerable road users.
 

Thomk

Guru
Location
Warwickshire
[QUOTE 3113261, member: 45"]You should never traverse a crossing without being confident that there is no-one wanting to cross. Zebra crossings aren't there to control pedestrians and tell them that they cannot cross.[/QUOTE]

I doubt you will find many people disagreeing with that.

The driver should consider the safety of pedestrians a top priority.

The mother/childminder should consider the safety of the child in the pram her top priority.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Maybe the pram and the mother should have been in hi-vis?
And the car too, so the mum can see it:whistle:


Edit: actually that's not a bad idea, not all cars but any that have points on their licence, or who are caught on their mobile etc, so we knew it was worth giving them a wide berth, and it might be a good deterrent to make them want to avoid their car having a re spray into hi vis yellow!;)
 
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LCpl Boiled Egg

Three word soundbite
Personally I find it hard to understand why (given the video) some people are so utterly convinced the driver was reckless. That's not to say he or she was or wasn't, just that given that video -well at least for me -I can't definitively tell.

I agree, we can't tell for sure, we can only get an idea based on what we see in the video. The trouble is the first time we see the car it's overtaking another road user right before a zebra crossing, to the extent that they are still in the right hand lane as they reach the crossing i.e. they do not have the time to safely complete the manoeuvre. That's pretty reckless in my book.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Pedestrians need to be assertive, similar to cyclists. Car drivers expect us to give way to them, to recognise their greater mass and to cower at the side of the road waiting for them to pass. I'm sitting at the computer in an upstairs window which overlooks the road, watching the children going to school. In the same way that primary position can help cyclists on the roads, I have just seen how groups of teenage boys quite happily wander slowly across the road with cars approaching, forcing them to slow down. They weren't at all worried, nor did they speed up. I guess at this time of day if you are on this road, you know there will be lots of kids ambling across, or even walking on my side of the road which doesn't have a footpath (despite there being a footpath on the opposite side).

I am not suggesting that pedestrians should wander all over the roads but that some cars aren't going to stop at a zebra crossing unless you do that assertive first step out into the road. You need to be both agile and a good judge of speed and the direction of travel though (which I think I am, of course I could be wrong). I step out because I wouldn't expect an old lady to do so, I expect I also did it with the kids in the buggy too - I can't remember back that far. But if someone doesn't assert that right then it will be lost over time.
 

jarlrmai

Veteran
Older kids often wander across the road as a form of brinkmanship as well.

You've just got to take it really easy around schools etc driving or cycling.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
However, the pedestrians fault is not making their intention to cross clear and waiting for a safe time to do so.
The pedestrian indicated an intention by walking across the pavement towards the crossing, and confirmed that intention by pushing the buggy wheels on to the crossing.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Just walked to get a bite for lunch, arrived at the zebra and the car on the other side had stopped for me and another lady, no car on the side nearest us but it's next to a roundabout. I stepped on and car came around the roundabout and stopped so that I was right next to the passenger door. My response was to shout and point downwards saying this is a zebra crossing! They did wait whilst I walked around the front of the car. And I felt a bit silly for shouting at them but it might make them look next time..
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
This morning's commute takes me past a primary school with a zebra crossing. As I approach there is a child waiting to cross on the other side so I stop. The car that had been behind me overtook (had to drive on the wrong side of the road to do so as I was about one meter from the centre line due as there are parked cars just beyond). I caught her up at the end of the road (after letting the child past) and asked why, and her reply was "I didn't see them!". Unfortunately I was too angry to think of anything to say to that and just shook my head.

Even if she didn't see them, did she not think it was an odd position for a cyclist to stop and take a break? Lucky for her the child had waited! Reg number WN07GYG is obviously driven by someone who doesn't actually engage her brain. Next to a school, at 8:30 you should be looking to see if there is anyone rather than waiting for them to wear hi-vis and wave it to catch your attention!
 
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