Closing roads to traffic for a few hours so children can play

[snorri]

Last month in Germany I cycled for 24Km on a road that was closed to motor traffic one Sunday. It was quite a liberating experience to share this wide road with heavy HPV traffic, chatting to others as they overtook or were overtaken. There were roller skaters, inline skaters, scooters,and bicycles, tricycles, trailers etc. etc. and people of all ages just enjoying the road without the close presence of internal combustion engines. There was a segregated path along the closed section, but it would not have been able to cope with the non-motorised traffic that day. I can't imagine such a busy road being closed off to motor traffic for such a long period in the UK. It was quite late in the afternoon when the photo was taken and traffic volume had eased off.

I turned off into a side road at about 18.55 to find it almost blocked with cars, their engines already running in readiness for a flying start in 5 minutes time when the road re-opened at 19.00.

 

[NeilEB]

Count me on the "roads are for cars (and other vehicles)" side of the argument. Seriously people, we have plenty of places for kids to play - parents just need to actually take them out rather then using the roads as an extension of their house.

Roads are NOT safe - sure kids can be taught to move when a car comes, but if they're old enough to do that, they're old enough to cross a main road and go to a park.

My road is frequently full of children playing, and they haven't got a clue - the number of times I've almost hit them as they come shooting around a blind bend on their bikes, or run out in the road is quite scary. And no, before you ask, I don't drive quickly down that road at all, as I'm now learning to expect them.

Whilst this is a cycling forum, and lots on here commute to work, please remember that some of us drive. Roads are bad enough (I live in London), without closing more of them to cars.

Of course, if this is a suggestion for school holidays, from 10-3 or soemthing, then that would possibly change the argument, but how would it be enforced? And would that lead to more confusion, and possibly more accidents?

 

[summerdays]

As a child I played out on the road (a cul-de-sac) once my parents thought I was old enough. And I've similarly let my children do the same, why not. They understand that they need to get off the road for cars and never leave scooters etc lying in the road. Yes there is a park a couple of roads away but that's not so good for scooters etc. And I think that traffic should be drive with consideration on residential roads in the first place - there is always the potential for a small child to run out as I've experienced myself (and stopped in time).

 

[Dan B]

I have more sympathy with "streets are for people" than "roads are for cars". they're not just routes from A to B, they're places people live.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

We live in a cul-de-sac – 4 houses, 4 flats, 4, offices – we have 3 children and several others live there as well. Yes, we take them out to the park and swimming, but you can’t do that all day every day, and the last thing we want is for them to be indoors. Big trampoline in the garden but it’s not big enough to ride bike in, or play tag etc. The road is made of bricks and there is no pavement. Every time they, or other children are out, we put a chair or a large toy in the middle of the road entrance – everyone who lives there doesn’t mind/does the same and if a car comes in, they have to slow and one of the children or adults will warn everyone else there is a car while they move it out of way. Gives all the children in the close a big area to play in, and has only upset one driver (a visitor to one of the offices) who, quite frankly, was happy to run children over rather than wait for 30 seconds, so quite frankly, can go f***himself.

Granted, this works because it is a “quiet” dead end and not a through road, but I for one think its very sad that most the space around most of our houses (in cities) is a no-go area for children. I’m not into banning cars but this “roads are for cars only” attitude is a very selfish mindset. Of course children shouldn’t cycle round blind bends or rush out into the street, but Neil’s comment’s above sum it up – he now drives carefully as he has learn children could be in the road – well, that’s how you are supposed to drive anyway. The “roads are for cars” mentality has quickly given care-blanch to selfish “out of my way, you deserved to be run over” attitudes that make most urban spaces no-go areas unless you are protected by a metal body and an engine.

Sorry, I’m with the streets are for everyone lot, and if you want to drive on them then learn to share.

 

[NeilEB]

As a child I played out on the road (a cul-de-sac) once my parents thought I was old enough. And I've similarly let my children do the same, why not. They understand that they need to get off the road for cars and never leave scooters etc lying in the road. Yes there is a park a couple of roads away but that's not so good for scooters etc. And I think that traffic should be drive with consideration on residential roads in the first place - there is always the potential for a small child to run out as I've experienced myself (and stopped in time).

For me a cul-de-sac is a slightly different beast - there will only be a limited number of cars, and if you play at the bottom of the cul-de-sac, you have plenty of warning that a car is coming.

The kids who play on my road around a blind bend are just asking for trouble - shame their parents don't seem to care.

 

[NeilEB]

The “roads are for cars” mentality has quickly given care-blanch to selfish “out of my way, you deserved to be run over” attitudes that make most urban spaces no-go areas unless you are protected by a metal body and an engine.

Sorry, I’m with the streets are for everyone lot, and if you want to drive on them then learn to share.

Whilst I don't 100% disagree with what you are saying, on the road cars should have more priority then pedestrians. I am of course not advocating kids should be run over, but the fact is if a car is going at 20mph vs a child, I don't fancy a child's chances too much.

There are plenty of places for kids to play, and in the middle of the road on a busy side street, just doesn't seem the most sensible. Peds and kids in particular need to learn to respect the amount of damage a car can do and behave accordingly.

 

[pshore]

Whilst I don't 100% disagree with what you are saying, on the road cars should have more priority then pedestrians. I am of course not advocating kids should be run over, but the fact is if a car is going at 20mph vs a child, I don't fancy a child's chances too much.

There are plenty of places for kids to play, and in the middle of the road on a busy side street, just doesn't seem the most sensible. Peds and kids in particular need to learn to respect the amount of damage a car can do and behave accordingly.

I know where you are coming from Neil, we all are acutely aware of how dangerous cars are, and that has scared people away from the roads. People didn't agree to this though.

Over time, our fear and failure to deal with this problem has led to motorway-rules (ie no peds, no bicycles, cars only) creeping down the road hierarchy, and so now we see all roads as out of bounds due to traffic. Playing Out is a small way of reversing that trend and reclaiming our streets for people.

IMO, the argument that says keep off the streets because cars are dangerous isn't that far away from gang culture that causes people to be scared to walk their own neighbourhood.

 

[NeilEB]

But streets have two parts to it.

Pavements (for peds)
Roads (for cars)

You wouldn't advise someone to play in the motorway, so why advise children to play unsupervised in the road?
Obviously there are exceptions, cul-de-sacs, quiet side streets etc, but in general, please keep kids (especially younger ones) off the actual roads please.

I don't drive my car into a park, and I don't come round a bend expecting kids to be playing in the roads.

 

[davefb]

this is the best part of the bolton ironman... not only is the main road at the bottom of our street effectively shut for the whole day, so its nice to wander down to..
( of course SOME drivers still need to drive down it,,, I assume people who live on the road, but i'd have thought they would have been forced to get off ASAP, but it would appear not..)



but our road which is used as a rat-run is also blocked off..

the difference in the 'feel' of the area was staggering, theres still the locals parked cars about and the odd local going to and fro, but also an eerie silence and a much more relaxed feel to the area because theres so much less traffic and what there is, isn't flying up and down..

(two days later back to normal and a nice 'coming together' about 50 feet down from my house... )

 

[snorri]

There are plenty of places for kids to play,

I don't think there are, please give some examples.

 

[Twigman]

I've always advocated that cars should have priority on the roads.

That old advert about speed limits, you know, the hit a child at 40 and there's an x% chance he'll live wheras hit him at 30 and theres a >x% chance he'll live.....

well I always say - Stay out the road and there's a 0% chance you'll get hit no matter how fast the car is going.

 

[Dan B]

Whilst I don't 100% disagree with what you are saying, on the road cars should have more priority then pedestrians.

Why? Is the car driver more important?

 

[NeilEB]

Why? Is the car driver more important?

Nope, and now you're being obtuse.

The car should get more priority as the road is designed for traffic. Peds have a whole other section of the street especially for them - it's called the pavement.

I'm really finding it hard to believe that people are advocating roads as a perfectly safe place for kids to play. Parks and gardens seem far more sensible places to let children run amok, not the place where cars are allowed to do 30mph.

But it's clear I'm in a minority in this thread so I'll graciously back out of it.

 

[sheddy]

I've always advocated that cars should have priority on the roads.

That old advert about speed limits, you know, the hit a child at 40 and there's an x% chance he'll live wheras hit him at 30 and theres a >x% chance he'll live.....

well I always say - Stay out the road and there's a 0% chance you'll get hit no matter how fast the car is going.

So how is one expected to cross the road ? We don't want to go down the USA route