Colesterol and statins

[ebikeerwidnes]

I know someone who had been told by her GP that she should go on statins for many years

she had very high cholesterol

so she refused and decided that it was her diet that was causing it

problem is that she believes what she read - so she went vegan
not a sensible vegan but one that followed the trends
and made sure everything was organic
and all that sort of thing

I reckon she was suffering from malnutrition at one point she was so thin

and gaunt and had so many problems
but she just focussed on her cholesterol - which did come down

but it never came down enough to not be high

she is still refusing - and her cholesterol is still high

 

[Punkawallah]

The key findings were the following:
[/I]

• Individuals who used statins consistently had a significantly lower risk of serious heart disease compared with those who used statins infrequently.
• The benefits from consistent statin use were seen in both men and women and across younger and older age groups.

It looks to me like they have set themselves up for success. For instance, no study of those in low risk and high risk that did not take the statins.

 

[T4tomo]

Anyone know of any studies that suggest an increase in dementure as that does seem to run in my Mum's family and scare me
but I am not willing to do anything about it unless I can see a study that shows in
after all - loosing my mind to dementure and loosing it due to another stroke is a bad choice!!

Having high cholesterol is though to increase the risk of dementia, as the same process that gathers cholesterol in your veins / arteries in your body that can cause heart / stroke issues also happens in the blood vessels in your brain reducing blood oxygen flow to parts of the brain.

So not taking statins to lower your cholesterol will increase your dementure risk, not the other way around.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

It looks to me like they have set themselves up for success. For instance, no study of those in low risk and high risk that did not take the statins.

You could imply bias in that study, or you could actually try to understand the field.

You'll find many other studies, including placebo controlled ones.

From the meta-analysis on all cause mortality I helpfully linked above. My bold.

This systematic review evaluated evidence from real-world studies assessing statin use, with a total of over 4 million patient-years of follow-up. All studies except one reported lower all-cause mortality in statin users vs. matched cohorts. The meta-analysis showed that statin use was associated with a significant reduction in all-cause mortality, with the risk lower by about 30% in patients on statins. There was no substantial difference in mortality reduction between studies including CVD and non-CVD cohorts. Substantial heterogeneity was noted in the main analysis, subgroup analyses, and after the exclusion of influential studies. None of the covariates assessed in meta-regression models accounted for heterogeneity. The funnel plots suggested possible publication bias towards studies reporting favorable effects of statins, which may be study limitation, although this effect was not significant. Therefore, although the included studies used propensity score matching and adjusted the estimates for potential confounders, the overall evidence on the association of statins with all-cause mortality in real-world clinical practice is of suboptimal quality.

The evidence in this area is really very strong.

Again, you're free to decide for yourself if it meets your own personal risk/benefit assessment. But please, don't pretend the evidence is other than it is, and don't imply bias in research you know nothing about.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Having high cholesterol is though to increase the risk of dementia, as the same process that gathers cholesterol in your veins / arteries in your body that can cause heart / stroke issues also happens in the blood vessels in your brain reducing blood oxygen flow to parts of the brain.

So not taking statins to lower your cholesterol will increase your dementure risk, not the other way around.

Again - any reference to actual studies
I am rather averse to accepting medical advise from forums without evidence

CLEARLY this forum is better than most

but it still applies

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Again - any reference to actual studies
I am rather averse to accepting medical advise from forums without evidence

CLEARLY this forum is better than most

but it still applies

Meta analysis

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39822593/

Highlights: Largest meta-analysis to date on statins and dementia risk, including 55 studies and more than 7 million patients.Statin use linked to lower risks of all-dementia, AD, and VaD.Numerous significant subgroup results highlight statins' diverse neuroprotective effects.

 

[Dogtrousers]

And everyone, in a very real sense, has a ‘50/50’ chance of having a heart attack - you’ll either have one, or you won’t.

Rather than that being true "in a very real sense" it's true "in no sense whatsoever".

It's also not true in any sense that everyone has a 50/50 chance of being eaten alive by shrews: Although it is true that it will either happen to you or it won't.

Be very afraid. They will either eat you or they won't.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Rather than that being true "in a very real sense" it's true "in no sense whatsoever".

It's also not true in any sense that everyone has a 50/50 chance of being eaten alive by shrews: Although it is true that it will either happen to you or it won't.

View attachment 788059
Be very afraid. They will either eat you or they won't.

Very shrewd.

 

[Mr.B-Campag]

Interesting thread. There was this Zoe (which is very much guided by the science) pod a little while back that talks about how diet can be used to lower cholesterol:

https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-foods-to-lower-cholesterol

 

[Dogtrousers]

problem is that she believes what she read - so she went vegan

Off topic but it reminds me of an ex-colleague of mine. He was very old school in his food tastes, if we were out of an evening he wouldn't come for an Indian or Chinese or a pizza because it was too exotic. Anyway, for some reason he became a vegetarian. A year or so later wasn't feeling well and they tracked it down to his diet: Salad and chips (and that's it).

 

[Tenkaykev]

Off topic but it reminds me of an ex-colleague of mine. He was very old school in his food tastes, if we were out of an evening he wouldn't come for an Indian or Chinese or a pizza because it was too exotic. Anyway, for some reason he became a vegetarian. A year or so later wasn't feeling well and they tracked it down to his diet: Salad and chips (and that's it).

Forgot the mushy peas, that would have sorted it 😁

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Rather than that being true "in a very real sense" it's true "in no sense whatsoever".

It's also not true in any sense that everyone has a 50/50 chance of being eaten alive by shrews: Although it is true that it will either happen to you or it won't.

View attachment 788059
Be very afraid. They will either eat you or they won't.

If a shrew started eating me I think I’d have a heart attack

 

[mjr]

Depends what is meant by genetic. I have high lipoprotein a - I call this the 3rd type of chlostrel after LDL + HDL.

You probably won't have had this checked. Because there is currently nothing that can be done to lower it (no real treatments yet available) .

I have. I think it was one of the tests that saw my blood sent from East Anglia to Glasgow because there seems to be limited lab capacity for it. I've had a lot of rare tests over the 40ish years they've been trying to understand my unusual symptoms. Lp(a) wasn't my problem, but I'm glad to hear work developing new treatments continues.

Most people probably won't have it tested, though, for the reasons you say. Aren't triglycerides the third type of cholesterol?

 

[mjr]

I didn't want to use that statement about incentives but it more or less confirms what my medical professor friend told me.
During the last four years of being prescribed statins no doctor has ever enquired into my lifestyle.

But did they ask first? The guidance is unequivocal that "Before offering statin treatment for primary prevention, discuss the benefits of lifestyle changes and optimise the management of all other modifiable CVD risk factors if possible" (the current phrasing of 1.6.2 is dated May 2023 but I'm sure the diet+lifestyle-first guidance was there before that).

In my experience and friends and family experiences told to me, loads of GPs seem to ignore that point and also the ones about starting with 20mg atorvastatin (NOT jumping straight in with the 80mg max dose, or with rosuvastatin) and repeating the blood tests (including the liver function) 2-3 months after each change. This slapdash prescribing causes pain to some people that would be avoidable if they followed the guidance.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If a shrew started eating me I think I’d have a heart attack

C'mon, are you a man or a mouse?