Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
I would say "strict but fair" but yes you are right.
corporal punishment - never did me any harm
- Thread starter dellzeqq
- Start date
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Corporal punishment is meted out by the incapable and inadequate.
I had the cane once when I was 10. To this day I resent it as I got it for something I didn't know was wrong. The lesson could have been learned another way.
Another time I had the strap, much older and I didn't care as my actions were the consequence of an inadequate teacher and I would have repeated them again in an instant in the same circumstances
Do I hit my own children, no. Would I allow someone else to do it. Of course not. Would society mind if instead of reasoning with someone I hit them with a stick instead. Of course it would and so it should.
If you need to resort to violence you've failed. There's no in-between, no grey area, no justifiable circumstances, it's wrong, it's not a solution, it's an admission of failure, either as an individual or as a society.
I had the cane once when I was 10. To this day I resent it as I got it for something I didn't know was wrong. The lesson could have been learned another way.
Another time I had the strap, much older and I didn't care as my actions were the consequence of an inadequate teacher and I would have repeated them again in an instant in the same circumstances
Do I hit my own children, no. Would I allow someone else to do it. Of course not. Would society mind if instead of reasoning with someone I hit them with a stick instead. Of course it would and so it should.
If you need to resort to violence you've failed. There's no in-between, no grey area, no justifiable circumstances, it's wrong, it's not a solution, it's an admission of failure, either as an individual or as a society.
GaryA
Subversive Sage
- Location
- High Shields
Abuse isnt just physical...our whole culture is dependant on turning young free minds into consumer drones.
One abuse no-one seems to notice (probably because they are unwitting victims themselves) is sensory overload abuse.
One abuse no-one seems to notice (probably because they are unwitting victims themselves) is sensory overload abuse.
My National School teacher used to make you put your hand flat on the desk and then she'd whack your knuckles with a heavy wooden ruler.
I have absolutely no idea whether it was because of a fear of getting my knuckles rapped or something else (any behaviour experts?) but we all respected authority and knew whether or not we'd done wrong, even without being hit. I don't see that respect of authority in kids today, but somehow we need to get it back. I really do have mixed feelings on the subject of teachers hitting kids. It might instill discipline, it might make things worse, but my real concern is some nutcase of a teacher going completely overboard. I have no problems with the idea of hitting someone a slap but thrashing someone to within an inch of their lives is pointless.
I have absolutely no idea whether it was because of a fear of getting my knuckles rapped or something else (any behaviour experts?) but we all respected authority and knew whether or not we'd done wrong, even without being hit. I don't see that respect of authority in kids today, but somehow we need to get it back. I really do have mixed feelings on the subject of teachers hitting kids. It might instill discipline, it might make things worse, but my real concern is some nutcase of a teacher going completely overboard. I have no problems with the idea of hitting someone a slap but thrashing someone to within an inch of their lives is pointless.
LosingFocus
Lost it, got it again.
Right... so next time you are, say, are stopped by the police doing 40 in a 30, it's OK for the PC to give you a quick punch on the nose?
MacB
Lover of things that come in 3's
- Location
- Farnborough, Hampshire
What a marvelous idea let's find those kids with the shittiest home lives, coz they'll be the repeat offenders, and make school another place where they get beaten.
But why stop there, if it's fair for a kid then why not an adult, starting with any MP that lies or cheats?
But why stop there, if it's fair for a kid then why not an adult, starting with any MP that lies or cheats?
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
I think that is a little extreme. In my day I used to pour over catalouges looking at toys I could never have. The fact that I could not have them just improved my imagination. It is down to parents to instill the value of patience and waiting. We can not blame the media for the failings of the family.
Zoiders
New Member
- Location
- Ice Station Zebra
The premeditated beating of a child by an adult with a weapon is never acceptable in any shape or form.
On the other hand we can't have the reversal of that where children think they can use adults or other children as punch bags when ever they are told no.
At some stage force is going to have to be used in some cases.
It's a balancing act, they got it wrong back then and we are getting it wrong today as teens are learning that they can use violence at will and no one will ever raise a hand to stop them in a school environment. This situation continues until they come a cropper at the hands of the police, earlier intervention might have taught them that violence is eventually met with violence in return - before they end up in the prison system.
On the other hand we can't have the reversal of that where children think they can use adults or other children as punch bags when ever they are told no.
At some stage force is going to have to be used in some cases.
It's a balancing act, they got it wrong back then and we are getting it wrong today as teens are learning that they can use violence at will and no one will ever raise a hand to stop them in a school environment. This situation continues until they come a cropper at the hands of the police, earlier intervention might have taught them that violence is eventually met with violence in return - before they end up in the prison system.
jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
that's a good idea.
asterix
Comrade Member
- Location
- Limoges or York
On two occasions I got the cane at school, once for not working hard enough (getting good results) and once for making the language lab equipment give feedback (made a loud high pitched noise) twice when in fact it was another pupil. I left with poor results and an enduring hatred of the school (I'd love to tell the master who beat me what I thought of him, the ignorant oaf).
A few years after I left having got a job, I started to study. I did day release, then evening classes and also a correspondence course. As a result I passed my professional exams with distinctions and credits. Then was given entry into university to study computer science in the 80's and got my BSc hons (with sponsorship from my employer).
A few years after I left having got a job, I started to study. I did day release, then evening classes and also a correspondence course. As a result I passed my professional exams with distinctions and credits. Then was given entry into university to study computer science in the 80's and got my BSc hons (with sponsorship from my employer).
But is this actually true?
I often hear similar complaints, that oh teachers can't stop kids now the kids are wise and they have 'rights' and if a teacher tries to stop them they'll get sued.
As far as I am aware, a teacher is perfectly within their rights to physically restrain a pupil who is out of control.
The press is hardly full of stories of teachers getting in trouble for stopping a kid punching them. The only stories I recall is one a few years back where a teacher snapped and went ape and beat the hell out of a defenceless pupil.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
The teachers that I know tell me they are not allowed to use any kind of physical restraint or force against a pupil. Even breaking up a fight is not allowed.
I 'got the belt' (from one of these http://www.johndick-leathergoods.co.uk/the_lochgelly_tawse_online.htm ) a few times. I did learn that the boss is the boss when of an age when rational argument wouldn't have worked.
The pantomime in front of the class was part of the punishment and maybe an introduction to the idea of justice being seen to be done, and done swiftly. Sometimes you were sent along the corridor to ask Mr X if Mrs Y could please borrow his tawse. Small female teachers lacking sufficient strength to make an impact would sometimes ask the Depute Rector ( rector = head teacher in these parts) to do the deed for them.
Belts were kept ready for action either in a specific drawer in a form teacher's desk, or down one of the long droopy sleeve things of their gowns if they were mobile. One music teacher I had kept it over his left shoulder under his gown, whipping it out and administering the hit almost at a run. I now listen to Radio 3 with respect....
Two strokes on the palms (both hands held out, one above the other) were the normal dose for average badness. It hurt for an hour or so, then was forgotten. I'm now a reasonably normal (by cc standards anyway...) adult, & I don't believe it did me any permanent harm. Teachers who administered it fairly were not particularly resented IME, although the few apparently sadistic ones were well known (one of the worst IIRC was a female RE teacher). Maybe this was the way we were supposed to learn the difference between fear and respect.
So to answer the OP, nothing wrong with bringing it back IMO. And not modernised - basic, easily understood action administered quickly without complication. The one improvement over the 1960s would be ensuring each incident was recorded and justified outside the classroom.
The pantomime in front of the class was part of the punishment and maybe an introduction to the idea of justice being seen to be done, and done swiftly. Sometimes you were sent along the corridor to ask Mr X if Mrs Y could please borrow his tawse. Small female teachers lacking sufficient strength to make an impact would sometimes ask the Depute Rector ( rector = head teacher in these parts) to do the deed for them.
Belts were kept ready for action either in a specific drawer in a form teacher's desk, or down one of the long droopy sleeve things of their gowns if they were mobile. One music teacher I had kept it over his left shoulder under his gown, whipping it out and administering the hit almost at a run. I now listen to Radio 3 with respect....
Two strokes on the palms (both hands held out, one above the other) were the normal dose for average badness. It hurt for an hour or so, then was forgotten. I'm now a reasonably normal (by cc standards anyway...) adult, & I don't believe it did me any permanent harm. Teachers who administered it fairly were not particularly resented IME, although the few apparently sadistic ones were well known (one of the worst IIRC was a female RE teacher). Maybe this was the way we were supposed to learn the difference between fear and respect.
So to answer the OP, nothing wrong with bringing it back IMO. And not modernised - basic, easily understood action administered quickly without complication. The one improvement over the 1960s would be ensuring each incident was recorded and justified outside the classroom.
vernon
Harder than Ronnie Pickering
- Location
- Meanwood, Leeds
My teachers would be gob smacked to find that I'd become a teacher as I was a troublesome pupil in school who, having been caned twice, became wilier and managed to get caned by proxy for the last two years of my school career i.e. I never got caught and omerta afforded me a lot of protection while my co-conspirators took the beatings,
My first caning was a consequence of setting fire to the drawer contents of my desk in French, an act that was an unintended consequence of a coaching session in making saltpetre fuses.
The second beating was punishment for me coating the banisters of two, three story staircases, with duplicating ink which resulted in four hundred plus kids getting purple hands whose purpleness transferred to everything that they touched.
On both occasions my immediate thoughts post caning were: "It was worth it"
Moving on thirty seven years I now get asked as a teacher, by parents, to give their errant offspring 'a clip' or a slap if they misbehave and when it's pointed out to them that it's not legal they promise not to complain!! On more than one occasion on a parent's evening I have had to restrain parents when they've attacked their child upon hearing less than complementary comments about their progress and conduct.
There are moments in the classroom when I wish my laser pointer pen had a stun setting.......
I find that reading Vogon poetry to naughty pupils to be far more effective than physical punishments.
My first caning was a consequence of setting fire to the drawer contents of my desk in French, an act that was an unintended consequence of a coaching session in making saltpetre fuses.
The second beating was punishment for me coating the banisters of two, three story staircases, with duplicating ink which resulted in four hundred plus kids getting purple hands whose purpleness transferred to everything that they touched.
On both occasions my immediate thoughts post caning were: "It was worth it"
Moving on thirty seven years I now get asked as a teacher, by parents, to give their errant offspring 'a clip' or a slap if they misbehave and when it's pointed out to them that it's not legal they promise not to complain!! On more than one occasion on a parent's evening I have had to restrain parents when they've attacked their child upon hearing less than complementary comments about their progress and conduct.
There are moments in the classroom when I wish my laser pointer pen had a stun setting.......
I find that reading Vogon poetry to naughty pupils to be far more effective than physical punishments.
steve52
I'm back! Yippeee
- Location
- bottesford scunthorpe
mmm how do we deal with a 13 year old rolling a fag and telling the teacher to f**k o** ? apart from that his reg disruption of the class ,is robbing other children from there rightfull education? i dont think that beating children is right but we should be able to deal robustly and firmly with this sort of behaviour, that mean physical, as he is under the mistaken imprestion that he is stronger and tougher than anyone else, and he knows bully and swearing work for him.i advocate nothing but am looking for sujestions.
