Cost of the Perseverance Mars trip.

[Joey Shabadoo]

It's apparently footage from Curiosity overlaid with audio of unknown provenance.

bugger.

Never understand why people do that.

 

[Oldhippy]

Nor I. Vanity I guess. Professional twats perhaps.

 

[Pale Rider]

After the thaw in the Cold War, an American diplomat asked his Russian counterpart why the US had got to the Moon first.

"Your Germans were better than our Germans".

Another story which is too good to check relates to the problem of writing in zero gravity.

The Americans spent millions of dollars developing a special pen to do it.

The Russians used a pencil.

 

[mudsticks]

bugger.

Never understand why people do that.

To mislead, and provoke a reaction.

The cheeky b*ggers, eh ??

Trouble is, it's not just 'annoying' it feeds the conspiracy theorists, and the
"All the science we don't like is fake" mindset

 

[winjim]

Another story which is too good to check relates to the problem of writing in zero gravity.

The Americans spent millions of dollars developing a special pen to do it.

The Russians used a pencil.

Maybe don't check it.

 

[mudsticks]

Maybe don't check it.

It may or may not be true, but it does point up the tendency that some have of looking for a high tech solution, when a simple easily accessible 'open source' one is staring you in the face, that will do as good, if not better job.

I always take a pencil rather than pen when on hiking or biking trips, and around the farm.

So handy for other purposes, such as fixing sticky zips, and you can even snap a pencil in half to share with a fellow scriber.

Try doing that with a pen.

I'm very concerned about the emphasis on IP in sustainable farming right now, rather than promotion of open source regenerative methodologies.

As ever its the maximising profits, and retaining control of such, that speaks loudest.. When are we going to learn to temper that.??

Its partly what got us into our present mess in the first place.

 

[winjim]

It may or may not be true, but it does point up the tendency that some have of looking for a high tech solution, when a simple easily accessible 'open source' one is staring you in the face, that will do as good, if not better job.

Are you saying the story is akin to some sort of religious text which points to a higher truth, despite not itself being true? Because that's somewhat problematic and if there are actual examples it would be better to use them.

The space pen was developed independently and fairly cheaply, solved real problems and was used by both major space programs. That's a pretty good story in itself.

 

[mudsticks]

Are you saying the story is akin to some sort of religious text which points to a higher truth, despite not itself being true? Because that's somewhat problematic and if there are actual examples it would be better to use them.

The space pen was developed independently and fairly cheaply, solved real problems and was used by both major space programs. That's a pretty good story in itself.

Quite so, if tis so, we all love a happy ending

No I'm not trying to turn it into a religious text, of any sort..

I'm highly irreligious

Fundamentally blasphemous even.

Nor am I anti tech neither.

I just think it behoves* us to keep an eye on science funding, and ethics, who profits, who loses out, where emphasis is placed, how neutral 'science' is interpreted and reported.

As opposed to far from neutral tech developments, which can arise, especially when it comes to tackling the issues, and needs of the day.

I'm happy to say 'hurrah for the international space pen project' if you like.

Partly because I generally approve collaborative working, and solution finding, and partly because I'm instinctively drawn to anything of which' our Jim' approves*..

* How's that for scientific / religiosity bias ??

 

[matticus]

Another story which is too good to check relates to the problem of writing in zero gravity.

The Americans spent millions of dollars developing a special pen to do it.

The Russians used a pencil.

[Someone else can check this, but:] I heard they didn't like using pencils because of the tiny debris they give off at every use in zero-G.

 

[mudsticks]

[Someone else can check this, but:] I heard they didn't like using pencils because of the tiny debris they give off at every use in zero-G.

That would make sense.. Bits of slippery old loose graphite floating about could cause trouble..

 

[matticus]

I'm very concerned about the emphasis on IP in sustainable farming right now, rather than promotion of open source regenerative methodologies.

As ever its the maximising profits, and retaining control of such, that speaks loudest.. When are we going to learn to temper that.??

Then you will like this story:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton...erance-helicopter-rover-fly-autonomously-mars
(using off-the-shelf components with open-source code, then giving out all their "secrets" in the pubic press )

 

[winjim]

[Someone else can check this, but:] I heard they didn't like using pencils because of the tiny debris they give off at every use in zero-G.

Flakes of highly conductive graphite floating around in a spaceship with lots of sophisticated electronics?

 

[figbat]

[Someone else can check this, but:] I heard they didn't like using pencils because of the tiny debris they give off at every use in zero-G.

It’s one of a number of issues relating to pencil use, but also pens have issues too.

 

[mudsticks]

Then you will like this story:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton...erance-helicopter-rover-fly-autonomously-mars
(using off-the-shelf components with open-source code, then giving out all their "secrets" in the pubic press )

Yup I'm all for free and fair access to technology, trouble is it so rarely ends up as 'free and fair' in reality .
IP is profitable.

And where there are shareholders etc etc..

Just look at how much lobbying is having to be done to get equal access to the Covid vaccines worldwide.

Even when the benefits to all, of this approach, are abundantly clear.

I think we need to work much harder on the fundamentals of sharing resources 'nicely' on a planetary scale, and not fekkin each other over, which ultimately of course hurts everyone.

The least able to defend themselves, get shafted first.

Maybe space programmes are a 'force for good' in all this.

I dunno, but they certainly aren't 'neutral' and tbh I remain to be convinced, they are 'benign'

 

[BoldonLad]

No. Actually, many of the civilian launchers are, or were developed from, military ICBMs. In Europe and Japan, space programs are funded by and for civilian and science purposes. Military and civilian programs are separate in the US.

Not an expert, but, that all sounds very plausible. Wasn't rocket development given a big boost (no pun intended) by WW2? But, as @Drago says above, Space exploration is surely preferable to war as a driver of development? Again, I could be wrong, but, the very devices we are using to read and reply to this forum are a result of space research, ever more powerful, smaller, and lighter computing devices were needed in rocket guidance systems, landing systems etc etc.