Critt racing - want to get quicker but how ....?

[Justinslow]

If that's what zone 2 is, then I would suggest it would not be that productive if your goal is crit racing, as that kind of 'long and slow' riding is geared towards endurance and won't bring about any of the changes needed in your aerobic capacity for shorter, high output events. It's ok for a sunday ride, but not as any kind of training benefit.

If you have a HR monitor, then a 2-hour ride, two or three times a week, working at between 75%-85% of your HR max is going to build a better aerobic base for you. Without an HR monitor, then that effort level basically just equates to the highest effort you can sustain for around two hours of riding. Best done alone, unless you have a riding partner(s) with similar fitness and goals.

Zone 2 is fine advice as is some at zone 1, if you bust yourself at 75 - 85% the whole time where's the recovery? Especially at the thick end of 50, you have to manage yourself and be a bit cleverer than that and not expect the earth in only 4 months of riding!

 

[huwsparky]

If that's what zone 2 is, then I would suggest it would not be that productive if your goal is crit racing, as that kind of 'long and slow' riding is geared towards endurance and won't bring about any of the changes needed in your aerobic capacity for shorter, high output events. It's ok for a sunday ride, but not as any kind of training benefit.

If you have a HR monitor, then a 2-hour ride, two or three times a week, working at between 75%-85% of your HR max is going to build a better aerobic base for you. Without an HR monitor, then that effort level basically just equates to the highest effort you can sustain for around two hours of riding. Best done alone, unless you have a riding partner(s) with similar fitness and goals.

From a personal point of view, my goal isn't totally geared for crit racing. By the sound of what your suggesting it's pretty much what im doing currenntly. I go out and ride at a level I can sustain for the duration of whatever ride I'm doing, which in fact is between the %'s your suggesting.

The reason I was thinking of maybe trying a different approach was due to progress slowing down, nothing more.

If it were advantageous to carry on the same during the winter then I'd be more than happy to carry on as it would certainly be less tedious and more enjoyable.

My initial thoughts of taking an easier approach was down to someone I know being on strava and it's pretty obvious by looking at his suffer scores that he purposely goes out and rides pretty much solely in zone 2 HR for 3-4 hours but when it comes to his races he does really well at both crit, TT and Ironman events. Knowing that he gets good results spending a lot of time zone 2 made me look into it and found plenty info about it on line too...

More than happy to take any suggestions on board though.

 

[S-Express]

if you bust yourself at 75 - 85% the whole time where's the recovery?

You're not 'busting yourself' at 75-85% MHR - those sessions significantly sub-anaerobic and are repeatable.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

This had been my first season of racing, and I've learnt a lot just in the 5 races I've competed in. Few bits of advice I've picked up:
Get a real good base fitness going, there's no substitute for miles on the bike, hour after hour, mile after mile, it needs doing.
Become a skilful rider. By this I mean become really agile, nimble, feeling in total control when crowded with others around you. Learn to read what's happening around you so it becomes second nature.
Train using big efforts followed by recovery, rinse and repeat. Train until it hurts. If it hurts it's doing some good. If it doesn't hurt, work harder. Always follow a hurt session with some good quality rest.
If you can afford one, buy a power meter. This will not make you faster in itself, but by learning how to use it properly will give you fantastic knowledge of yourself and what you are/could be capable of.
The most powerful rider will not always win. There is a super strong muscle between your ears, use it well and race smart.

 

[S-Express]

My initial thoughts of taking an easier approach was down to someone I know being on strava and it's pretty obvious by looking at his suffer scores that he purposely goes out and rides pretty much solely in zone 2 HR for 3-4 hours but when it comes to his races he does really well at both crit, TT and Ironman events. Knowing that he gets good results spending a lot of time zone 2 made me look into it and found plenty info about it on line too...

More than happy to take any suggestions on board though.

Understood, but that's a good example of something that works for one person not necessarily being ideal for someone else. Don't know what distance he is TTing, but ironman events mean putting out consistent power on a bike for 4-5 hours plus. If your goal is crits, then you don't need to be knocking out 5 hour road rides. Some of those hours would be better spent at higher intensity.

 

[huwsparky]

Understood, but that's a good example of something that works for one person not necessarily being ideal for someone else. Don't know what distance he is TTing, but ironman events mean putting out consistent power on a bike for 4-5 hours plus. If your goal is crits, then you don't need to be knocking out 5 hour road rides. Some of those hours would be better spent at higher intensity.

I guess I just want to be a better all round cyclist at all distances. I enjoyed the crit I did and will do more, compared to TT'ing I prefer it hands down. I guess I prefer racing others than racing myself. But at the same time I don't want crit training to limit my ability over longer distance road races + decent paced group rides.

Thinking about it I'm probably never going to find the perfect training plan!

 

[Justinslow]

Without an HR monitor, then that effort level basically just equates to the highest effort you can sustain for around two hours of riding.

Ummmm, I'm just saying that at 50 banging out "highest efforts" would eventually probably be counter productive and it's not a bad idea to mix it up a bit with easier rides as @huwsparky says.

 

[S-Express]

Ummmm, I'm just saying that at 50 banging out "highest efforts" would eventually probably be counter productive and it's not a bad idea to mix it up a bit with easier rides as @huwsparky says.

Yes, but your 'highest effort' over a two hour ride is not going to be anywhere close to a maximal effort, so should not require too much recovery and you should, in principle, be good to go again after 24 hours. Training has to be repeatable to be effective, and rides at that level are particularly effective at kickstarting your aerobic capacity. Obviously a decent spin out with the group, or a slower ride will also be useful to throw into the plan as well, if only to break things up a bit.

 

[ayceejay]

We used to have these 'I am right you are wrong' type of encounters with someone else who insisted the way S-express does which is a shame because aren't we just sharing our knowledge gained from experience here?

 

[Hacienda71]

You want to replicate the efforts you will encounter in the type of race you are in. So for a crit the aim of your training should be to improve your ability to recover from hard efforts. Whilst a good base is important it won't give you the extra bit you need to win in a crit. I raced on the road a few times against a top tester this year, he has posted a 48 minute 25 so he is quick. He got in the break in virtually every race he was in, but he didn't win any of them. He can bang out a good wattage for an hour or two, but when someone attacks at the end of the race he can't respond. Do your base training, but ultimately prior to the start of the season work into your training plan two or three months of high intensity intervals. Different people find different mixes of intervals work. There are published plans you could follow, they include a mix of intervals, normal rides and recovery rides.

 

[S-Express]

We used to have these 'I am right you are wrong' type of encounters

No one is right or wrong. I don't see anyone disagreeing?

 

[Tiny01]

Thanks fellas some really sound advice given here & plenty for me to take in and digest & put into practise on my training rides

 

[fimm]

You might find the book "Fast After 50" by Joe Friel (who has written a number of books about Cycling and Triathlon training) useful.

 

[Norry1]

Another vote for TrainerRoad here

One of the best bits of general advice I've heard about training - is that most people don't train hard enough on their hard days and don't train easy enough on their easy days.