Cycle lanes and negotiation

I'm no big fan of cycle lanes. Even less so of poorly designed lanes such as the one I videoed recently.

This morning on my ride in I got thinking (always dangerous). What is it, exactly, that I don't like about them? Yes, there are the practical issues, debris, drains, too narrow, door zones etc. All reason enough. However, I realised that there was something more. It the effect they have on negotiation.

In the video above there are sections where I almost feel forced into the cycle lane. Why do I feel forced? I feel forced because the presence of the cycle lane takes away my 'right' to negotiate with following drivers. As I approach the lane, drivers 'expect' that you will enter the lane. If you don't they feel their space is invaded. So by having the lane there, I loose my right to decide where on the road is safest for me to be, and I loose my ability to enter negotiation with the following driver with regards to my road position.

As well as this, when I am in the lane and for some reason I need out, I need to negotiate a position further out on the road. However, my ability to negotiate is significantly weakened by the cycle lane, i.e. the following drivers expect you to stay in your lane.....why would you want out!?

Surely all road design should aim to increase the likelyhood of successful negotiation between road users, not hinder it? When road users are aware of the needs and wishes of others, it makes the roads safer. When we are placed in compartments everyone gets caught out when road users need to leave their compartment.

I can understand why new cyclists might see cycle lanes as a positive thing, but I can't help feeling, that they are divisive, and are part of the fuel for the us and them fire.

What do you think?
 
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User3143 said:
Very true and it something I observed this morning and thought about.

I was cycling home from just having something to eat and was in the cycle lane when a coach passed within about 1 foot from the bold line. Take away the bold line and this can be classed a close overtake, however if the line is there people 'think' as long as I don't go over the line it's ok when it's simply not.

Another cycle lane misconception.

Yup. That is compartmentalisation at it's best (I think that is the biggest word I've ever used!:biggrin:).

I'm building up to a letter to the local council about their cycle lanes, so I have been thinking about this recently.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
magnatom said:
I'm building up to a letter to the local council about their cycle lanes,
I think ALL local councils have had letters about the dangers of cycle lanes, no harm in them getting another one though.:biggrin:


PS This thread is not specific to commuting and should be in Campaigning and Public Policy!
 
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snorri said:
I think ALL local councils have had letters about the dangers of cycle lanes, no harm in them getting another one though.:biggrin:

Ah, but this is going to be a difficult one to ignore. It'll include video evidence, comments from other cyclists etc. Oh and it'll be from that really annoying infamous bloke who has a tendency to carbon copy in other people into his e-mails....:smile::smile:
 
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snorri said:
PS This thread is not specific to commuting and should be in Campaigning and Public Policy!
I did have the idea whilst commuting and the issue is on my commute, and plenty of people have issues with cycle lanes on their commutes, and I'm not campaigning......yet. :biggrin:
 
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Uuugh! :smile: Lee that cycle lane isn't poor, it is downright dangerous!!! :biggrin:

I'll do my best with the letter (I'll copy it here for dissection). I'm still mulling over how best to approach it and how to have the biggest impact. :smile:
 

Tubbs

Well-Known Member
On my commute there is a roundabout with a cycle lane around it. It is so dangerous to use the cycle lane both approaching and going around the roundabout. I just use the correct lane and the ONLY problem I have ever had on that roundabout is drivers beeping and shouting at me to get into the cycle lane. There is another bigger, busier roundabout further on without a cycle lane and I've never been beeped or shouted at on there.

I think I might write a letter too. :biggrin:
 
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Tubbs said:
On my commute there is a roundabout with a cycle lane around it. It is so dangerous to use the cycle lane both approaching and going around the roundabout. I just use the correct lane and the ONLY problem I have ever had on that roundabout is drivers beeping and shouting at me to get into the cycle lane. There is another bigger, busier roundabout further on without a cycle lane and I've never been beeped or shouted at on there.

I think I might write a letter too. :biggrin:
Good stuff! :smile:

Maybe this should be the...Let's get these lanes sorted by writing letters thread! :smile:
 
Annular cycle lanes (like Lee's) are terrible and thank goodness the government has realised this

LTN 2/08 - Para 9.10.2, On busy roundabouts, it is important that the cyclist takes up a prominent position nearer the centre of the carriageway to ensure that drivers understand the intended manoeuvre, and, for this reason, annular lanes are not generally recommended.
still too many of them still in existence though :biggrin:
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
There is no such thing as a good cycle lane. They should all be removed and the right that cyclists have to use the whole road rather than the painted bits should be recognized.
 
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HLaB said:
Annular cycle lanes (like Lee's) are terrible and thank goodness the government has realised this
still too many of them still in existence though :sad:

What document was this taken from HLaB?
 
Tubbs said:
Here's mine...What the hell are you supposed to do here if you are carrying on round? :sad: During rush hour this roundabout is really busy so are you just supposed to stop here and wait for a gap in the traffic?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...qBb_jHaUbVFgDbokiN6W9g&cbp=12,156.86,,0,12.91
That looks rank :smile: to say the very least. For cyclist dumb enough to use it leads them up exit arm, straight on to that painted (potentionally slippy) surface, not to mention the fact that they might not want to take the exit !
 

Matthames

Über Member
Location
East Sussex
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