Cycle to work advice

[carolonabike]

Black Knight, have a word with them, there are ways around it. If your HR dept don't know how, suggest they check with their provider, they will be able to help them.

If it's stolen btw you'll still have to keep the payments up, and claim on your insurance, it's in the terms I'm afraid.

 

[jig-sore]

That makes sense, so your net salary reduction should be in the region of £22.00

22 X 13 = 286 + 125 = 411

so your actually paying £411 for a £500 bike and you had 13 months interest free credit ???

dont know what your moaning at

 

[Norm]

Read the terms of the agreement, you cannot back out of it. However, you are also completely wrong in your calculations, Black Knight, and you are still making a pretty good saving.

22 X 13 = 286 + 125 = 411

so your actually paying £411 for a £500 bike and you had 13 months interest free credit ???

dont know what your moaning at

This!

They can't say what the final payment will be (Norm will be along to repeat that in a bit - see I have listened Norm!).

Congratulations. Let's see if we can help bring Black Knight up to the same level of understanding.

Pretty pised off with the whole thing tbh. The saving is negligible through C2W. With the new changes i'll actually be paying a premium of 20% over list price.

Wrong. You are saving around 20% and getting an interest free loan for the rental period.

Yes £500 voucher

13 payments of £35ish quid (gross)

I've highlighted the important bit which you are missing, BK. £35 gross is probably £22 a month (depending on personal tax circumstances) so you are only paying £411.

Alternatively, just don't buy the bike at the end of the agreement.

The final payment situation is ridiculous. The bike will either going back this week under a cancellation or ill leave it out to get stolen.

Aside from this being gross misconduct (do you really want to lose your job over it), sit back and look at the real facts of the scheme, rather than your misunderstandings.

Also, if the bike gets stolen, you will be required to pay the total new price of the bike to your employers, now that is a way to lose money and it would be a shame to do that just because you don't understand things.

 

[jig-sore]

Cycle to work advice...

... don't sign things you don't understand

 

[Black knight]

But they have said what the final value will be, in writing, both pre and post changes.

Was 5%

Now 25%

 

[jig-sore]

if you read the way it is worded it more then likely says "around 5%" or something similar.

your payments are made before your tax and insurance deductions so the bike is "tax free". if you were not paying for the bike you would not be taking home an extra £35. that £35 would be reduced to (around) £22 for you to take home. the £13 difference was never yours in the first place.

even if you do have to pay £125 to buy the bike it still add up to less than the £500 value of it.

the main attraction of the scheme for me was the 12months interest free credit. even if i do end up paying close to its £900 value i'll still have benefited from free credit instead of having to use a normal credit agreement or have to save up to buy it.


either way, im H.A.P.P.Y. im H.A.P.P.Y. i know i am im sure i am.... im H.A.P.P.Y.

 

[Black knight]

[sup]True, I understand that. Just very disappointed they have in effect changed the terms of the contract.[/sup]
[sup]
[/sup]
There is no talk of 'around' it clearly states I would have paid £20 under the old agreement.

For the lesser saving I'm making I would have rather not joined the scheme.

1. I had to wait 6 months for it to open from the time I actually wanted to buy
2. My local Halfords is awful, I had to travel to another city to make use of the voucher.
3. I couldn't make use of the '1st service' as my local Halfords couldn't/wouldn't fit me in with 3 weeks notice.
4. I'd have much rather supported my LBS. As I spent an additional £300 odd on accessories straight away I reckon they would have given me thereabouts the same discount on the bike that I'm getting through C2W.
5. If they can change the terms once they can do it again. Whats to say they have a rethink and decide the final value shoud be 50% after a year.

For new entrants, fine, not a problem. I just think its wrong to make a huge change to the agreement mid term.

I'll liken to to the child benefit furore. If the government said you're not entiled to it under the new rules.....and additionally we are going to backdate it a year (because you wouldn't have had that money anyway) there would be riots!

 

[jig-sore]

1. I had to wait 6 months for it to open from the time I actually wanted to buy
2. My local Halfords is awful, I had to travel to another city to make use of the voucher.
3. I couldn't make use of the '1st service' as my local Halfords couldn't/wouldn't fit me in with 3 weeks notice.
4. I'd have much rather supported my LBS. As I spent an additional £300 odd on accessories straight away I reckon they would have given me thereabouts the same discount on the bike that I'm getting through C2W.
5. If they can change the terms once they can do it again. Whats to say they have a rethink and decide the final value shoud be 50% after a year.

now those are fair comments, especially the halfords ones. i bought a boardman so unfortunately i had to go to halfords, but i bought it still in the box and it wont be going anywhere near them for a service

they did reserve me a display model with scratches in the paint and no brake !!!! lets just say, that's not the one i took home

 

[Norm]

There is no talk of 'around' it clearly states I would have paid £20 under the old agreement.

Then this is not a cycle to work scheme and is not eligible for the tax exemptions.

 

[newb]

I was on a c2w scheme last year and I can not fault it. I havent made my final payment yet ie buying the bike. But I believe that as it was last years scheme it will be around 5% of the value.

I am also doing the scheme again this year when I believe I will have to pay more for the bicycle to make it my own. I have been told that I will have to get the bike valued and a price will be made from its valuation.
My question is though, what LBS is going to say "that bikes immaculate mate, your going to have to pay 20% more because I say so?"
they would all loose business.

I think the c2w scheme is fantastic, cant fault it and because of this I have got into cycling

Phil

 

[Black knight]

Then this is not a cycle to work scheme and is not eligible for the tax exemptions.

I agree. However this is advice HMRC have given to my employer.

Under the new rules bikes are worth 25% of the list price after 12 months regardless of condition.

If I get chance to hook the printer up I'll scan a copy later.

 

[adscrim]

I agree. However this is advice HMRC have given to my employer.

Under the new rules bikes are worth 25% of the list price after 12 months regardless of condition.

If I get chance to hook the printer up I'll scan a copy later.

The 25% list price is the value HMRC attach to the bikes for tax purposes. If you pay the full 25% you get the asset tax free. If you pay less you have to pay tax on the difference between the value you paid and the 25% valuation. Point this out to your employer - it's actually pretty clear in the HMRC guidance but most people don't bother looking further than the valuation matrix.

 

[Black knight]

[sub]Ahh I see.[/sub]
[sub]
[/sub]
[sub]So you're saying the £125 'valuation' is just that.[/sub]
[sub]
[/sub]
[sub]If I paid say £20...I'd then pay just the tax on the £105 difference? Is that straight income tax 20/40%??[/sub]
[sub]
[/sub]
[sub]Thanks for explaining that.[/sub]

 

[buggi]

We've had similar discussions and work and it is all down to the HMRC, not the companies. The companies aren't bothered.

i'm not sure what our place are deciding at the moment, but i might raise the idea of the company "keeping the bike" and allowing the final payment a year later, while in the meantime the employee uses it for free.

 

[John the Monkey]

so your actually paying £411 for a £500 bike and you had 13 months interest free credit ???

That's the way I'm looking at mine.

The vagaries of our system mean that I'll have saved about £20 or £30 by the end of it, rather than the £150 or so that the original arrangements suggested.

However, I've ended up with a terrific little bike (my Brompton, which has proved incredibly handy to have) that I couldn't have got otherwise. I'd be more circumspect about starting another C2W arrangement, but I've not done badly out of this one.